#137 – Data Management with Slater Latour of Newforma
Hello, and welcome to a, another episode of the construction quarter podcast. I'm Dylan, I'm your host. And before we get into announcing our special guests for today, Matt it's, uh, it's been hot here in Michigan. We are in Michigan, Michigan, California. We've uh, we have some rain. It's just a bunch of other crazy like weather stuff, but for construction, how has, how have your job sites been there?
Uh, it's been miserable. We've had the first four day stretch in a row that we could work for. I think about a month now. Uh, it's actually been dry this week until the other night we got about a 20 minute storm, 20 minutes dropped two inches of rain. So it souped everything back up. But, uh, after this weekend it's saying it's dry again.
So construction moves on, you know, we, we wait for.
Yeah. If, if anything you get, uh, you get it done while you can and get under roof as soon as
possible. Yes, it cannot come fast enough.
All right guys, uh, with our little like weather update, I think it was what the first, uh, two minutes it turned into for us is, uh, like to introduce our, our special guests for today.
Uh, slitter Latour is the chief marketing and product officer at Newforma. Many of you guys probably know who new format is. Uh, there, you know, in project information management, basically all your documents, mills, uh, transfers, all that kind of stuff. Uh, for aid industry, you know, you can use ACO, but like before it has been around for a long time, they're like the OGN document.
Right? Um, and really to help just information management, communication, all that kind of stuff for all types of projects, many of you have probably used it. They've been around forever. Um, and just a great solution. And Slater's portion of this whole, uh, beast that is new forma is marketing product management and development teams, uh, there at new forma, which, you know, All business stuff and email management, integration of apps and productivity, basically it jack-of-all-trades when it comes to product.
And I think that's a big probably why definition of products, but Slater, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me
excited to be here.
So as we kind of like talked about a little bit here before the show, What and how did you get your start? I want to say construction, but
sure. Yeah. So, um, it was a, I started a year ago in June, so I've, I've been at Newforma for a little bit over a year.
Um, and it's funny how things happen. It's definitely the first job I've taken where, uh, it being COVID. Uh, entire interview process, um, into a very relatively senior role without ever having met anyone else on the team or anyone on the teams that I was going to be expected to manage, uh, which was in and of itself a major challenge.
Um, uh, and so, so now having been there for over a year, I mean, that's, this is my first foray into the, any time. You know, for exposure to construction the construction industry, especially at the scale that our, our core customer base is dealing with, you know, maybe had been exposed to some residential construction in the past if you're building a home, but it's a whole other beast when you're talking about some of our customers that build stadiums, that build airports.
And so the, you know, after a year, I think I know enough to be, to be dangerous and, and, and, you know, there's, there's parallels all over the place. Cause my background is largely. Was largely in, in wealth management technology and financial technology, but in that industry as well, very forms driven, very documents driven, and that, you know, that it's getting exposed to that.
And that whole belt, that whole transition from actual paper forms getting faxed or mailed to, oh, you know, You already have all this data somewhere. Why don't you just pre-populate it it's, you know, three times as fast, a lot of that transformation is, is relevant in, in the work that we're doing in terms of innovation.
So that's always been interesting when you come from one vertical to another and see that a lot of the same problems, uh, exist, uh, regardless of unrelated, those two things might seem, uh, from the outset, but yeah, it's, uh, it's been great. I've enjoyed a good deal.
But that's good to hear that we're not the only industry that's, that's screwed up and lacking.
I didn't say it like that.
We'll say it for you.
So I guess I'll jump in, um, being kind of new to the, the AEC world as you are. Uh, what are you enjoying about it? The most, obviously you're on, on the sales and marketing. Uh, but, but what are you seeing in the industry that's kind of sparked
your interest? Well, I guess, I mean, yeah, it's a, that's a multi-layered question.
I'd say like that. One of the coolest things is, is coming from a software background and having it largely be abstract versus. In terms of what the customers are doing to coming in and, and, you know, we start meetings and we'll, and we'll look at a project that one of our customers looked, um, and just seeing just, you know, the imagination, it took the scale, the number of years of commitment, the vast number of people that had to be involved in, in the variety of specialization to actually deliver an airport that can.
People all over the world, millions of people every year. Like that's cool to, to see that, you know, even, even though what we do is, is such a tiny part of that, such a tiny part of that. That's, that's a really cool and interesting thing to be a part of and something that, you know, we try to never lose sight of this.
Um, In terms of the, like the more granular, what do we enjoy about it? It's it's, you know, I think there's a lot of opportunity in this space to, to make the workflows more efficient, to make sure that you're not running into communications problems to making sure that everyone's working from the right versions of documents.
That everyone is on the same page in terms of changes to the project that were dictated by a change in design or by a change in the conditions on the ground. Um, I think there's a lot of opportunities to improve the synchronization. Um, and, and that's, you know, something where we really dive into
that's a good
answer.
Yeah. I mean, from, from my experience, And coming into construction, like, as I did, you know, I came from electrical safety, it was kind of my first job. So I got to go into all types of facilities from like steel to plants, to, you know, grain elevators, chemical plants, you know, like the whole. Like manufacturing base that is most all of the Midwest.
And even like Southern stuff, Pennsylvania, like there's a lot of manufacturing that's hidden in nooks and crannies that we just don't know about. And then going into construction where like the documents I delivered were like a 60 page, you know, eight and a half by 11 PDF. Right. And then you go into construction and it's, you know, a hundred, 200 sheets set thousand sheets set of a 30 by 42.
Right. So, uh, you know, Forex in scale drawing or six X and scale drawing, you know, thousands of pixels and then to compress all that data and send it in drawings alone, not to mention the like 2000 page spec book that no one ever reads, uh, along with all those drawings. Like, it's just a lot of stuff that, yeah.
Your arms around. And I think a lot of people always lose sight of like how much data we generate as an industry that gets, you know,
and, and, and, you know, it's conceived so mundane, right? To, to think about, you know, we're literally going to take an empty. Space and turn it into something highly functional and beautiful.
And, but, oh, how do we figure out, like, I can't email this it's too big and that's a major challenge in getting this, you know, massive thing deliberated where there's nothing now. It's kind of fun. It almost seems like that's like, how could that be a thing that pops up and gets in the way of this project getting done?
Like it should be, I don't know, like the, the ground giving out or the rain, it shouldn't be that the PDF was too big, but it is. And, and, you know, if people don't have the right versions of things to work from in the field, um, that, you know, think of the cost delay in, in, in, in that.
Oh, it could be catastrophic and it often is.
Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's um, it's, it's, it's been very interesting to see. You know, the other thing that I don't think people outside of the industry appreciate is just how structured when you're dealing. Like you think like, you know, if you've ever had someone to come work on your house and you just have, like, the contractor wants to ask you a question, they just text you and, and you don't realize that that's just not how it works.
If you're building something much larger than. Like every single interaction between the various specialized trades that will work on a project like that is governed by a specific contract document. And the, you know, the way that those contract documents get exchanged is highly regulated and highly structured.
So like, how do you manage all of that and do this incredibly difficult thing of creating a large and functional physical space? It's it's um, I don't, I, you know, it's not something that is coming from the outside industry. I thought was true or, or maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly didn't. I, I immediately realized I had a lot to learn.
Uh, I think you're right. It's just, and it doesn't matter if you're on smaller projects or larger ones, but the, just the sheer volume of paperwork that we produce just on a daily basis, is it a lot of people probably wouldn't recognize that there's a ton of it and a lot of waste because of it. So I think to.
Systematize that and, and, and how's it all in one location has more benefits, just an organization.
Yep. And it's, you know, it's crazy to think that the default probably is instilled in some cases and for the right reasons, but, um, probably was for many years, like the amount of overnight shipping that would have to happen to get those documents from, from point a to point B, um, was, was probably unimaginable.
Yeah. In the, so I've been in a lot. Well, first, any firm that I worked is the oldest in the actually. They're like lineage all the way, like act they, they were the ones that designed Churchill downs. So they're in Louisville, Kentucky looking at Farley is their name today, but they're the oldest standing firm like still stands, like they've changed their name, but they've never, it's not a merger type thing where they're they like went away.
Um, and in that, like they had. Uh, mailroom is what they called it or a print room. And historically they, and they, they still had a person in charge of that where they, they maintain all the plotters. They would handle shipping if we needed to. Cause like, in some jurisdictions until like a few years ago, Florida con like had to have WhatsApp.
So that meant for all the contract documents you had to stamp in wet site, or you had to, they had got, it was a those hand Clippers, uh, to, to seal them. Uh, so you had to hand cream, every single drawing with your seal and then what sign every single year. Uh, and you had to do five sets of those to send to the governing agencies in Florida, um, to get, you know, drawings done so that like, and then you had to overnight them, right?
So then you had all the drawings and they probably to go to separate people. So you had five different boxes and it took like our principal literally a day to sign all this stuff. And someone else like doing all the. And
then God, God forbid there's weather, uh, or, or, uh, you know, or the delivery driver misses the, the, the, one of those people.
Right. Cause then convinced for seed, uh, who knows.
Yeah. And I mean, that's just like for, and now Florida's all electronic, but. The thing in that, you know, even just a few years ago was now think back to when all drawings were done. That way on all drawings were done by hand, which for a lot of firms was still like 99, 2000.
Like it was still, you know, a blueprint set of drawings that you had to like send somewhere to get, you know, two, or if you're a separate mechanical or MEP firm or structural firm or civil affirm, the architect had to send you like physical. You know, my part prince to, for you to do your own stuff, like odd of this, like, you know, we think that, you know, technology has been here forever, but it's really only 30 years
old.
Yeah. You know, it takes time for adoption to, to replace that stuff. So. It. So even if the technology's there, the sometimes the harder problem is getting people to change how they work. Um, and, and to embrace it because if it works, you know, it works at the end of the day. It's not like it's the building, it's what the end result that actually matters.
So it's, you know, getting people to change if they've done doing something for 10, 15 years and, and the, the things have been getting created. You know, what, what can you say to convince people to change? Um, so sometimes it's just, it's just, uh, just takes time.
So your main client base then is obviously the architecture and engineering industry. Is that correct? That's very correct. 'cause I was going to say changing the way construction guys do things is a lot like pulling teeth sometimes. So I don't know. I don't know if the AME crowd is quite as bad, but
it probably varies.
You know, there's always the, your curve of, of people who are really excited about everything new. And then you've got your, you know, that w there's the adoption curve. I think it's true of every industry. It's just kind of, when that adoption curve starts.
How did you guys do, uh, during the last year and a half through COVID how did that change? Yeah,
so. I started the conversation by mentioning is like my first time interviewing and accepting a position without actually having met anyone in person. So, you know, a lot of that type of thing in, you know, for us internally is, is getting everyone comfortable.
With teams instead of, instead of actual in-person meetings and you lose some stuff with that in terms of being able to get into a room and whiteboard and really seem how it really like play things out strategically and having those conversations. So that, that part is pretty, that part's been pretty tough, but you know, you just have to adapt and be resilient.
And I think for the, you know, from the customer side, it's the same, it's a little bit of the same story. Like we, you know, you know, we we've. Yeah, you go from assuming that, um, that everyone's going to be sitting at their desktop and, you know, wired in, in an office, like in terms of how we deliver our product.
We've, we've realized that we need to be more flexible and have a, more of a assumption. It's going to be a mix going forward a little more of a hybrid mix. So we've, we've definitely learned a lot about how we work internally. And then I have have learned a lot in terms of how we want to approach, you know, the next set of the next, I dunno, roadmap, so to speak for, for our, for our pro.
So, are you still all a hundred percent remote or are you
we're? Uh, we're, we're gradually, we're now in a, in a, in a little bit of a hybrid. Uh, so we're, we've got a few days a week in the office and otherwise are remote and that's been great to actually get in and do the stuff that works so much better when you can be in the same room with someone.
Yeah. Really reassuring. I had a meeting this morning with a prospect, uh, to talk about a new office, which frankly I thought was dead. Um, but, but it's, it seems that the whole industry, the whole, uh, whole nation is trying to get to kind of what you just said to kind of a hybrid, you know, be here for three or four days and then a day or two at home or Starbucks or wherever you do things
or in the field.
I mean, for, for, you know, for an a and a, and especially like, yeah, it's. It's not like construction in that era. You literally have to be there to, to, to, to build a building. But you know, they, you know, they need to be out in the field a good amount too, and they need, and they're going to need access to all their data.
So, um, and it's probably been hybrid for longer than people really want to admit. But, but it will, but it's getting to the point where people will be willing and, and, and embracing of the fact that it's, that it is all we're all, all work models really are hybrid.
I guess in there. So for new format in particular, I know like it's been years since I've used the former vendor and affirm that they needed it. Um, so with that, like we always had to log into a server. So it's your kind of model moving forward to. Because we had our own, I think on-premise server to access everything.
And it was our own little silo to where now it's a kind of a cloud model where anyone anywhere can access any drawing, send anything, check it, some metal, all that
stuff. Yeah. We're definitely moving that direction. And in, in, in how we extend the product, I think there's still a need, like, especially when you're talking about the value of the intellectual property, that, that we're discussing people are going to want to control that and own the access to it.
So it's more about for us. It's do we want to have a fully cloud, uh, Product. Yes. But then we also need to have exp be able to provide experiences to those customers that aren't going to be comfortable with F you know, with a fully SAS space. Uh, cloud-based solution to give them an experience that provides the best of the cloud with the security and the control of, of what, what existed when they, you know, when everything was sitting on a server rack in your local office.
So we're trying to find the right, uh, ways to serve both of those use cases. Um, you know, both bought by like built building mobile apps that connect to on premise servers, building web apps that connect to our on premise servers. Uh, Collaboration tools there. And then, and then also thinking about what does a hundred percent cloud-based solution look like for, for a different, you know, for a different profile of customer?
Yeah. One of the things, you know, we kind of mentioned the difference between like a home builder home services industry, right? Whether plumber, electrician, builder of some sort in residential, and then on the commercial side where you. You know, infinitely more data to deal with, but also some of the clients that you serve in that commercial capacity, you know, when you're dealing with like federal clients
or go there,
or some, you know, uh, DOD type clients, like their security requirements are far more stringent, you know?
And, and like at SAS model is.
And then, you know, we're a global company. So they, you know, I, you know, thinking about like the German market, as an example, if you're doing government German government work, like you better not be able to access anything related to this project, unless you are sitting in the office behind multiple firewalls.
Uh, like if you even like whisper clouds, it's not gonna, it's just not going to, going to work out for you. So you, we need to, we need to have like different ways of offering. The experience that work for different profiles of customers and different geographies.
So, I mean, we've talked about data, um, and just how much of it there is, I think that, you know, still gets, it's hard to wrap your head around unless you're, you're kind of in it or dealing with all this paperwork and. With that, like, what are some of the, like maybe the, the trends that you're seeing with, you know, we've talked about a little bit of cloud or data storage, but some of the, you know, maybe even bigger trends pass the paperwork construction, but like, you know, as new foreman, you guys are kind of, you know, connected to a lot of different people globally, a lot of industry globally.
What are some of the trends that you guys are really seeing that, uh, you can share?
Yeah. Um, I think, I think BIM is, is a story that, um, you know, it gets a lot, it gets talked about a good deal, but I think there's a tremendous amount of runway there, um, to continue to improve technology. I mean, even when you're thinking about, uh, actual contract documents, contract documents are largely, uh, are, you know, are based on 2d drawings at this point.
And that's, you know, I think there's, there's good reasons for that, but, um, you know, can you start to incorporate the 3d views of that stuff? We're seeing more and more adoption of VR technology. I think that has implications for planning, for budgeting, for safety, um, for efficiency. So I think them as a long runway ahead of it, especially when combined with, with VR experiences, um, that, that will just, I think they'll improve project outcomes.
And like, I, I can't say like, oh yes, that will bring down costs and improve efficiency. But I think that like, you know, we'll end up with having. It would be happier outcomes and less rework. Um, so, so, so we'll see, we'll see where that, where that all goes. And then, and then, you know, in, and then there's the concept of like digital twins.
Which I think is really interesting and that is related. Um, you know, it's much easier to think about a project, like a maintenance project or a, um, I dunno, an improvement or an extension of a physical space. If you could actually see behind the wall to see what you're going to be breaking, if you tear that wall down.
Um, so I think that that's the kind of thing, um, that you'll see more and more of. And then if you start to combine them. Internet internet of things, concepts, where can you actually like monitor and, and, and isolate problems within buildings if they've been delivered with, um, you know, some kind of sensor technology that's looped into your digital twin, that's then connected back to con you know, to your contract documents and documentation for the whole project, from a tech purely, you know, software based, uh, Software plus a point of view.
That's where, that's where I think there's a lot of runway. And then like on the physical side, you know, manufacturer like more modular manufacturing, um, is what everyone talks about. And, but that's not, that's not a, that's not an area that I'm all that qualified to discuss, but it's makes it makes sense.
Uh, theoretically.
Yeah, I think he hit all the right points there. I mean, from the construction side, we're, we're certainly seeing a rise in the use of BIM. We don't where I'm at. We don't build projects of the scale of, you know, airports or things like that. But, but even on some of the smaller side stuff, we're, we're seeing at least versions of BIM or, or portions of it come in.
Um, so I I'd agree with you there. I think it's gonna just help to boost.
And a question I have for you on that is, is as it relates to BIM, like w w what, what, what is the, what are the, what are the obstacles, if any, to adopting like a BIM type solution? Cause if, I mean, if it was, if it was easy and cost efficient to, to work from a 3d model, For you, would you do it?
Is it, is, is it like, I'm just like, what are the barriers to entry for you as it relates to this?
Uh, well you hit three or two of them already, you know, is it easy to use and is it cost-effective then whether either of those are true. I think the S the, the industry mindset from, from my side of the table from the construction side is that no, it is not easy and it is very expensive.
So if we can get past that. You know, and, and the third is one that, you know, let's rewind 10 minutes in that our industry as a whole does not like changing the way we do stuff. Sure, sure. From, from Ryan man, I'm heavily based in pre-construction. So if, if we could find a BIM technology that we could afford, that the clients could afford, and it would boost efficiency, I would push it all day long.
Um, but again, a lot of the projects that I'm involved in. You know, I go back and forth, whether I think the, the economics would balance out frankly, to do that. But, uh, I think it's, you know, BIM technology as a whole, as it gains more popularity, it's also coming down in cost. It's reaching a different price points and, and I don't think you have to do full on a hundred percent modeling to enjoy some of the benefits of.
Yeah, I totally agree. And, and that's, that's there now. We're getting a little bit, uh, maybe out there, but it's something that I think about is if you look at what some of these, you know, multiplayer video games are able to do in terms of rendering environments and keeping them stable. And at the price point, they're able to do that at you start to wonder.
You know, how, how much longer until you can take some of that technology, I think it's already happening. Um, but can you start to adapt with that technology to create, you know, maybe it's not at the level of yeah, exactly. It's it's already happening.
Yeah. So unity years ago partnered with, uh, Autodesk and you can basically do exactly what you're talking.
Um, so this kind of dates, we, so back in 2014, when the Oculus rift DK two first came out, um, so when Oculus was not owned by Facebook, uh, the firm that I worked for, we got a pair of the DK two, and we had, you know, the most powerful, best desktop computer, you know, Monique goodbye and plugged it in. We took our rev models, our BIM model.
Do you know, a whole bunch of work. To, um, you know, like random through a bunch of processes to get them into, we used unity at the time. So, I mean, that's the rendering engine and then exported that from cause unity had the, like out to VR to where we could do it straight to the DK two headset. So then you could walk through literally you're building in virtual reality at, you know, a six foot height.
So if you get somebody that was short and you put them on, they were like, wow. I feel like. Um, you know, and in that right. To walk through a building, but you could literally do with an X-Box controller and that was seven years ago. And since then it's become so much better. Um, I haven't put on a new headset, but then like I got such bad migraines in doing it.
Cause the frame rate wasn't high enough to like give you a true experience of what you would feel like as. Human. Right? Like you need hundreds, if not thousands of frames like frames per second versus the like 50 are getting, um, it was pretty like sad. So, um, it's a little techie, but in that, like the, the VR portion can be here, but the whole question.
Is it worth
it? Yeah, that is, that is the, uh, that is the, I guess multi-billion dollar question, but I mean, if you going back to the video game analogy, if, you know, if you, if the average professional, you know, as time wears on is more and more of the average, you know, the, just the profile, the demographics shift and the average person like grew up playing video games.
And you make you put a video game, like experience on that, then maybe you cross that barrier of, uh, you know, it's, if it's super easy to use and it's intuitive based on like gamified, maybe, maybe you get more adoption in BIM there. I don't know. We're a.
W we may have just uncovered how to get people to start working again.
Yeah. Where we found that whole VR experience valuable was not, I mean, somewhat on the design side for sure. But it was more, uh, nobody knows what the hell they're looking at when they see a 2d set of plans. Like you cannot like picture that spatially. Like what is, what is 12 feet by 12 feet look like?
You know, what's how big is the room I'm
in? Right. I think some people can. Uh, which is crazy.
It's those few architects, right. That are really good at that. But most owners, that's not what they do. They'll think spatially about anything. And it's like, I have a hard time doing it. You know? Like I think most people like actually seeing space and like at the right dimensions, like mentally is a very hard thing.
How, how big is this basketball court? Like, how big is this stadium? You know, how big is this Concourse? Right. But by putting it into VR now, like owner conversations become like, oh, that's what it looks like. I like that. I hate that.
It's probably also reduces I'm like some mad. I bet you. Deal with this is, you know, the, you get told what to build, you build it.
Then they see it. And they're like, oh, I don't like it. Change out all the, I don't know, change that. And you're like, okay, now here's the cost. And then they're not happy. Like, if you could just overcome that hap you don't know when that's gonna happen, but I needed to overcome that happening of being able to actually like, visualize what that.
I don't know what that window looks like in a wall, uh, based on its placement. Maybe, maybe that's where you're going to get your ROI. Right.
It's a good point. Cause we get that quite often. The, the, oh, I had no idea it was going to look like that. Well, it's been drawn this way for six months.
You could do it with that.
We we have, uh, we acquired a company called, uh, BIM one that has a product called BIM track. Um, last, uh, earlier this year, I guess it was, and they have an interest. They have a cool integration with Inscape. Are you familiar with Inscape? And what have been track does and specializes in is the issue tracking within the context of a BIM model.
And through that, that partnership. Like you can be doing the VR walkthrough experience, seeing all the issues, creating new issues within that 3d world. And that's, you know, again, that's, it's, it's, I don't know how you, you know, it's probably, again, it depends on the scale of what you're doing, but that's where you can start to avoid things like, oh, that, you know, I really hate that, that product in this space, uh, That window, that whatever it is, and avoid some of those rework issues and, and make sure those get communicated and tracks, um, when they need to, you know, at the right point in the project, not after you've just ordered 2000 windows with white trim, but white trim the way clashes very badly with something else.
Yeah. And that's, that's one of the biggest things that I've seen in talking to a lot of contracts. Um, especially as subs that, you know, the, they throw out the design model and basically redo it with all their fabrication parts and that piece. So for, for BIM in that context becomes, you know, now you have two entities doing the same work twice, you know, so you just doubled your costs and it's really for.
Contractual problem, frankly, within the industry and design bid build where you're designing it, and then you'd sell forbid, then this contractor gets it and then they have to redo, you know, all that work or for whatever process they need to go through to run it through their shops and their processes that, you know, that.
Where BIM can be kind of combined if everybody's under one roof from the start,
but that's not how, yeah. It doesn't seem to happen that way, unfortunately, but maybe we'll go that direction.
There's definitely been a more designed build. I say contractors coming through, um, in that like, so talk about IOT a little bit in. In the IOT world is, um, you know, obviously sensors and like building like health and air quality and things like that. What else are you guys seeing from a standpoint of maybe that would integrate back to, you know, that, that BIM model, that central data warehouse, if you will, uh, moving.
Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, I think you've covered it, right? It's it's it is. I mean, when I think of IOT, I think of. Connecting the physical world to do the digital one. So it really is sensors of some kind. Um, and then, I mean, it can create more problems than it solves too. Cause you can get a, you can get a false read on a sensor and then open a wall and it's like, oh, it was just, you know, it was just the sensor.
So like there's going to be some, you know, you're gonna need really durable load to, to actually like bring this into a factory at a need really durable, low cost. Low cost sensors to what to want to actually like put them all over the place. Um, in terms of, in terms of other areas, you know, I, I'm not sure maybe they comes, they come with certain product products that were where it makes sense so that you, you know, I mean, it's not a big deal.
If something's malfunctioning in a 2000 square foot house, you could probably just find that. But based on where the water's flowing. Falling through, but if you've got a structure that's many orders, orders of magnitude larger than that. Maybe that starts to make sense if you can isolate it, um, and, and figuring out the right ways to do that.
Um, but yeah, I think the, the durability, and then how to power that, and then to make sure that connection stays up to date that's, that's where the challenges are going to be. Cause it's going to be hard to change those types of things out.
Yeah. And quite candidly. Way over my head, but you know, we, we have seen some pretty cool, uh, sensor-based uh, data management with things like concrete, you know, where guys are implanting temperature sensors as they're pouring concrete.
So you can monitor, uh, cure times and temperatures and things of that nature. But, but those are largely kinda, you know, one and done use. Obviously they don't, they don't last too long, but to integrate that further into a living building would be. Yeah.
Yeah. It's yeah. Honestly, I can, I can maybe talk about it, but you know, actually how that all actually would work, uh, how you, how you would keep something like that running for 50 years.
That's where I think it all starts to break down a little bit. Sure, sure.
Well, and I think you just nailed it right. We've we've got some cool stuff, but nothing is built to like buildings, right. To withstand or be around for 50, a hundred, 500 years. Right. Like some of the buildings that we have in this day and age.
And so we've kind of talked about through like, kind of what's next, but maybe what do you see is one of the. And we've talked about some problems, but like, what do you see as one of the like big problems and, you know, how, how has new formula, or how do you think we should, as an industry go about making that, you know, better kinda improving?
Uh, yeah. I, I think, um, you know, honestly, like it's, it's, it's going to sound mundane. It's not as next level as, uh, as some of the other concepts that we've been we've tossed back and forth in this conversation, but, um, you know, A contract document is a, is a structured document. And, and it is, it is the data within it and the F and the document itself like that can be transmissible across multiple systems.
So like, you know, no one should be downloading. Uh, sending to someone else they do the same. And then having to re upload that to another system like the, like the, the industry. I think the ecosystem needs to embrace the fact that you can, you can send all that stuff electronically, track it, electronically manage version and do management manage versions like electronically, because I mean, think about we, we, we, we were saying before, this is buried in paperwork.
Well, like. All every, every time one of those things happens, you've lost minutes, especially if you have to go back and find something and it'll email. So like the way we get the bean, like just solve the things that are easy to solve first. And then, and then, and then get to the, uh, some of, you know, then figure out how to find a sensor or the battery of the last 50 years.
Um, And, and the way to do that is for the ecosystem to embrace, you know, open architecture and connectivity across silence across, you know, there, you know, partnerships and coopertition as opposed to outright competition.
Coopertition I like that. I haven't heard that before.
Probably a little too consulting the buzz word, but it, it does make sense.
Yeah. Um, I don't know. I'd be, I'd be interested to hear from, from you both on, on, on, on your thoughts.
I mean, as far as problems in the industry, I, I like your take on it. Um, you obviously have a very different mindset and background than I do. You know, if, if we could come up with an easy way to manage documents, that was cost-effective, uh, across all, all spectrums. I think that's huge, you know, in terms of what I see as biggest problem to, to our global industry.
It's. It's much more, uh, granular than that. And that we don't have people, you know, we have a severe lack of, of people coming into the trades, uh, whether it's a E or C frankly, and this was, this started long before all the COVID mess and unemployment stuff. So that's just exacerbated the problem. Um, how do we fix that?
That's what Dylan and I try to do here every week. But
do you think it needs a public policy response of some kinds? Um, no. It's just culture. Surely a culture shift. Uh,
I think public policy or, or removing some certain policies that are currently in place would help. Um, but I, but I think the, the overall arching theme is a culture shift, a mindset shift of.
Uh, of people wanting to work again and not, not necessarily physically working right now, but you know, people actually wanted to do something with their, their hands, create things or time to then create. I just think there's a, a global culture shift that really needs to happen and happen quickly.
Yep.
Sorry.
Uh, so one of the big things that like we hammer on is, uh, in the culture side of it is that like, you don't have to get your hands dirty to be in construction. Right? It's this thought that construction is a dirty, like if I'm wearing a suit, you know, I've never gotten my hands dirty in my life. And that is just the farthest thing from the truth, right?
Like I've designed millions of squares. Of commercial building space, but on plenty of job sites. And ultimately at the end of the day, I'm responsible for the designs that I put together. Like, my name is on them. I under law, like I'm the one that seals them. Like I am responsible. And I think most people don't understand that there's, there's a lot of place just like, you know, you come from a software background, you know, but you're in construction, right?
Like you're construction adjacent, but you're in the industry. And I think that a lot of people. You know, or if you're doing VR and design, like gaming, but for construction projects, like Gill, Bain has a division of like 10 people dedicated to that. Like, you know, there's, there's a lot of ways that people can fit in like construction that I think, you know, you don't have to go out and be on a hot roof when it's 110, you know, like you don't have to be digging a ditch when it's zero.
Right. Like, those are what we think of, but the industry is so much bigger than that. And I, you know, there's a spot for everybody, whether you're a project manager, programmer, engineer, architect, you know, like construction guy or somebody that like actually liked building things and seeing it like a building come to life out of the ground.
So for, uh, that's the culture that we talk about. Is that, you know, construction is not the guy digging a ditch that you see on the side of the road or the pavement guys blocking traffic. Like, you know, that's a poor portion of it, but that is not like the industry in its entirety.
Yep. Totally agree. And you could start in one area and, and the, you know, you're going to grow and, and, and you could end up somewhere totally different.
I, you know, in my own career, I certainly have, so, um, Yeah, that's, uh, it is gonna be holders. I mean, like it's, you know, it's interesting. Cause like two of my closest friends from college are in construction and you know, like didn't study that, but went into it and they love it. Um, so, and we, and we, we, we talk uh, all the time, but you know, it, you know, it is, it is interesting.
It's not like an obvious career path for someone that goes to like a four-year university, but it could be, it should be. Um, so I think that's kind of the point you were making, um,
yeah, a hundred percent there. There's so many hats we can wear and so many ways to get here. I mean, We don't need to get into my background too much, but I did not take a traditional path to own a construction company by any means.
I mean, I there's, there's a million different paths to get to the end and, you know, we just need to get back to accepting that as a, as a viable option.
Yeah. Yeah. It's um, I think, you know, I think on some level I have a little bit of faith that the market, like the demand will over time, the demand for people.
And with that, that have the natural aptitude that can like develop that skill set. Well, the economics will, we'll just adjust and you'll see, and the cultural will follow a little bit, but yeah, that, that can be slow. Um,
yeah, I mean, like for me, like it's what I do now is develop software to like automate, you know, electrical design, because that was problem that Matt talked about is we couldn't find people, you know, when you're designing.
Big like a big school, 300,000 square feet, you know, that's, that's an eight month project with two guys on just electrical dedicated to it. You know, like not to mention the other eight projects that you have, right? Like, it's, it, it's a lot of big work for a lot of firms. And the more tedious stuff that you can get rid of to your point.
I mean, that's what we automate is, you know, that mundane stuff to. Let you get to the things that matter most, right? Like actual engineering, actual design, just like, you know, contracts and document management is super important, but you shouldn't need to have somebody like dedicated to doing just that for there, or, you know, the legions of people that in, you know, history that firms have had just to deal with drawings and document
management.
Yeah. It's um, it's, it's, uh, It's I was just thinking about to two things. One is, I don't think another thing that only people appreciate is just how specialized, like getting a 300,000 square foot building is like, you know, two people just working like full design for eight months. Like it's really hard.
Um, And then this totally unrelated. And I don't know why I thought it was the same time, but, um, what I was going in to, to Walgreens to get my vaccine, like I had to fill out a form online with my name, contact information insurance, blah, blah, blah, that had to go in. Then they gave me a form. I had to fill that out again.
And then I had to answer questions for them to type into their form a third time. And I'm like, this was all done. None of this. Like I've been here for 15 minutes now. And like, and all I've accomplished is give you the same information three separate times. And, and then they spelled my name wrong on the card.
I think that the medical industry is. Yeah. I'm the worst at that for a long time.
So, yeah. I mean, it's, it's solving some of these simple things will make the experience better for, for everyone, but, you know, I don't know. It's like, doesn't get the attention. It deserves. Yeah.
Slater. Where can they find.
Yep.
Uh, so, uh, www.newforma.com if you're interested in, in, in our approach. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's pretty much it pretty simple.
Awesome Slater. I appreciate you coming on today, man. It was a, it was an interesting conversation and it's always good. Viewpoints that are around the industry, but sometimes not right.
Not in that same space that we
operate in. I appreciate it. I appreciate you having me out. Hopefully I didn't embarrass myself too much. I was fun.
Yeah. Slater. Thank you guys. I mean, we've hit, we hit all the high points, right? We. Uh, document management, like just big this industry is, you know, from, and then going from like, you know, thinking of housing and, and texting somebody for answers to the, uh, process.
So we all know as RFS and, uh, you know, all despise in our own, uh, way, but then going through, you know, BIM VR, IOT, modular construction, like there's a lot to this industry and you know, like Matt and I hammer on every week is communicate, communicate. And again, we want people to know construction is a great industry.
There's a spot for everybody in, you know, no matter kind of what your aptitude is or what you like. There's probably a spot for you somewhere. Uh, if you like building things, if you like seeing things coming out of the ground, if you like just being a part of, you know, the amazing thing that we call, like a transportation system and like infrastructure across the U S or office space or schools, whatever it is, you know, there's, there's a spot.
So I think that's our big message. Any last closing words later?
Um, no, I mean, I think, I think that you said that very nicely. Um, I think you said that very nicely, so I, uh, I can't that's you, you made it too hard for me to fall out. Good at doing that.
All right, guys. Well, that's this episode of the construction corner podcast until next time.