#124 Mixing Culture and Technology with Todd Weyandt
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the construction corner podcast. I'm Dylan, I'm your host joined by my blue collar. Bad-ass Matt. What's going on, man.
[00:00:12] Another great day, man. It's continuing to warm up here in Michigan. Had a nice long holiday weekend. How about yourself?
[00:00:19] Yeah, the weather is coming for a change.
[00:00:21] And like, it's funny, right? We always talk about the weather, but in construction it matters so much what the weather is doing and what, you know, we can get out. And actually, like
[00:00:33] I checked the weather channel so many times a day. It's insane.
[00:00:39] Well, guys, we have an awesome guests today. Todd Wyant. And I probably butchered your name, Todd, but you're the correct?
[00:00:49] You just crushed it. That was, that was impressive.
[00:00:52] Is the director of marketing at applied software and host of bridging the gap podcast, which was the winner of the 2020 best construction podcast, which I had the honor to be on.
[00:01:02] And Eric here shortly, and a champion of industry dialogue to support construction companies, as they try new things, advance and thrive right up our alley here on the construction corner. And, Todd has a deep and extensive knowledge of how to increase awareness of a brand communication strategy and plays a major role in elevating corporate culture, which is what we're going to dive in, thoroughly today.
[00:01:25] So Todd, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Yeah. Ours was so good that you had to, you had to come on here and, we had to go a little further and that's very well. We had finished the. Meat of the recording. And then we we'd dive into to culture just as maybe we'll release it as a little bonus feature or something.
[00:01:48] And I was like, Oh, this is great. There's so much here to, to talk about and unpack. I mean, it's a culture and construction is a kind of a taboo, hot button topic, but it's so important to dive in and figure out how we can really make some strides and improvement. Yeah. I think I went on a 15 minute diatribe on a core values.
[00:02:11] It was good. You're good stuff. Need it. Before we, we dive into that. We, which we'll cover it extensively here, but how did you get your start and, what made you stay in construction? Yeah. quite by accident, I stumbled into construction. so my whole background is in marketing and brand strategies.
[00:02:35] And so I came to applied software seven years ago, having. Never really touched the AEC industry in any real practical way. and came in on the marketing side, but really fell in love with the, all the nuances of AC and really got a passion for construction because of the people that are in construction.
[00:03:00] I think it. Bar none has some of the best quality people. and so for my, at this point, getting to talk with them on the podcast and learn even more about them and the nuances and there's, there's so many different complexities there on, on the people's side, not alone on once you get to process and technology side that opens up, you know, 20,000 different cans of worms of complexities there.
[00:03:24] But, the, the, the people made me, made me stay. and so I have really. Developed a, a passion and a love for seeing this industry kind of transformed because I think looking at the, from my vantage point, you know, the next 10 years of construction, you're really going to see this radical change and that's the processes and how things are going about is.
[00:03:50] Gonna look very different in 10 years than how it has the last 50 years. This is the moment where construction is at this precipice for this just exciting growth of innovation. And so I think being able to help give voice to champion that of like, Hey, this is you guys can do it. Like there's we all can band together and we can make strides here is, that that's, that's the fun part for me.
[00:04:18] that's a great answer, Todd. That's a fantastic answer really. And it it's, it's so cool. It really is so much about the people. you know, it's, it's an industry that from top to bottom and side to side, you know, there's, there's, there's different, sub-industries all wrapped up in construction, right.
[00:04:35] Obviously, you know, you guys are both kind of on the software and design side, I'm on the field and construction side, but. There there's a people element and that human element to it that you can't get rid of, you can't ignore it. and at the very, very root of construction, it, you know, it starts with people who are still out there working with their hands.
[00:04:54] Right. And so what, what you guys are, frankly, both doing to, to help further the industry, but, but also increase the, the livelihoods and the enjoyment of all of the people that are still out doing the. The handiwork. It's just huge for the industry as a whole. Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the fascinating things for me and focusing in on construction is that you have all these incredibly talented people, incredibly smart people, no matter where they are in the industry.
[00:05:28] And they're all willing to help and to share in the kind of undercurrent that goes through. The, the people in construction is just get the job done, whatever that entails. Let's figure it out and problem solve, get it done. But all too often, they are kind of talking past each other, the, the field and the arm.
[00:05:48] They're trying to, it's the same goal in the end of the day, but how they talk, how they phrase things and how their, their lens they're looking at it is, is very different. And so they, they just are talking past each other. So I think having, Somebody had to come in and be like, all right. Here's like the translation between what you guys are trying to do.
[00:06:11] We're all on the same team here. This is the end goal that we're trying to accomplish. Now let's figure out where we go about that. And problem solve. Neither side is wrong. You're just looking at it from different sides of the same coin. and I think putting that out on the table is, is really important.
[00:06:28] You, you're never going to build trust unless you're able to state clearly, this is where I'm coming from. I'm going to really seek to understand where you coming from. Even if I think you're an idiot coming from that direction, it's still good to know. This is the direction that you're coming from.
[00:06:51] All right, I'll go, in there. Right. It's, it's important to have empathy for, for the other guy. And I think that's the core message that we're we're getting at is understanding where people come from. having a little bit of empathy, right? Not, not so much that like you give into their, their side, but just having that understanding and.
[00:07:13] For you. And one of the big points, in here is really like core values and how you communicate to your team. how has core values really helped you internally as well as externally communicate to clients, customers, advocates across the industry? Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I think that B don't have your values defined, then you don't have values.
[00:07:42] And if you don't know them, you don't have them. and so taking that intentional time to really do some soul searching, whether it's on the personal side or the company side, is, is critical. And while it may seem to some of that's just like fluff that's it's flowery stuff. Yeah. I don't have time.
[00:08:04] We're trying, we're working already on tight margins and. Way behind schedule. Well, I don't have time to sit and think about how I feel and the values that I want to portray to people. But if you don't take that time on the front side, really in the long run, you are wasting so much more time because you are going to be going into the same problems over and over and over and over again.
[00:08:27] And the people side of it is going to keep on tripping you up. So as an example of the values that applied a few years ago, the, the whole company really did a really intensive soul searching on what are we, what do we value? What do we want to value? What do we want to be known for putting together?
[00:08:47] Not just the, mission statement of what the entire company believes in the direction, but what are the values that we have to have in place in order to accomplish that mission statement? And so we had, it was a several month process of. Us doing different focus groups. And I got the, the, the honor of being able to lead those focus groups and have those conversations with all the people across the company.
[00:09:15] And so whether they were on the sales side or the development side or on the technical side or the admin and marketing side, everybody had a voice in it. no matter their position in the company too. And. Hearing all the kind of commonalities that are coming up with, like, this is what we value. This is what we want to be known for it.
[00:09:36] So, we came up with six integrity, authenticity, creative problem, solving foster leaders, supportive and teamwork. And then we had, you know, definitions of what all those really mean, what we mean by all those, and that built out our mission statement that we hammer back on all the time of empower clients, transform industries, champion innovation.
[00:09:57] And so if. Those are kind of our North stars. If we're about ready to do a new initiative or a new launch or a new policy or whatever, and it doesn't line up with one of those aspects, then we cut it. We're we're not gonna do it. It's not worth our time. So it's a really big efficiency driver in the end because we have those campuses that we can say, yeah, this is great.
[00:10:24] This is. You know, helping to champion innovation. Great. We got it. This is gonna help transform industries. I know that these are all kind of vague, but, it helps kind of guide that, that North star, I don't know how you run a company without a North star. I think you're spot on man. how many employees roughly are at applied software?
[00:10:49] we're just over 150 is so quite a few. Yeah. So, so when you, when you all took on this undertaking to, to really structure the, the culture side, did you just do it quote unquote, blindly by yourself? Or did you use one of the, you know, EOS system or something similar? Yeah. initially we started blindly by ourselves.
[00:11:15] There was a kind of a committee at applied that. Was, kind of driving it forward. And we had top leadership buy-in they were part of the committee as well, too, which is obviously critical. If you don't have the top buy-in, then you can have all the values represented that you want and it's not going to go anywhere.
[00:11:36] cause it's not your North star. as we got more sophisticated with it, we built out. Different things that need to be brought on software platforms to help with that. But really at the end of the day, it's still the I'm going to go back to the people aspect. And it's the people that are consistently representing that because you can have it, but if you're not encouraging that, if you're not rewarding that I would argue, you probably don't really have those values.
[00:12:04] Anyway. so we on my team every single week, somebody gets called out for. Representing the value, whatever value that may be really well. And so it's like, well, this person, you get the supportive award this week, and this is how we think you've represented, supportive. And then at the end of the year, we always have a big kind of award ceremony where people get submitted into nomination for representing all of these values.
[00:12:34] And then the management team actually votes on. Who they think best represented that throughout the entire year. And they get a big award and it's a really exciting event for all of applied. so yeah, I think being able to call them out and reward those specific use case examples is critical to having those values.
[00:12:58] Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say, I couldn't agree more, you know, Shaffer construction, my company, we're small, there's only five of us, including myself. So, it would get a little redundant to keep awarding a that you know, weekly, but, but we certainly try and point it out, at least at least quarterly, you know, kind of the same idea if we have a guy in the field or in the office, that is really, I mean, all of us embody our, our core values.
[00:13:23] That's, that's part of our hiring and firing process. But. You get the people that, that you find start shining, you know, more on one value than maybe another. And it's been very powerful for us as well to, to kind of spotlight that and put it on social media, let the whole world know what you're doing. And it's just helpful.
[00:13:40] Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think you bring up an interesting point there too with the. A hiring process and it needs to become part of your onboarding process of this is who we are. This is what we represent, and this is where our North stars are. Because if you're not telling them, they're not just going to pick up on it necessarily, you know, or, or they'll create their own definition.
[00:14:03] Hopefully they they're able to pick up on that. You have some of these values or else you're not representing them well, but, I think you need to clearly define what. You mean by those, I'm a big believer in defining the terms, because, you know, we go through just the applied values. You can create a lot of different definitions for integrity or authenticity.
[00:14:26] That, that means something different to anybody that wants to put their own spin on it. and so we have specific meanings of what each of, one of those really means to us. Yeah. And through those two, it's important to. Reinforce behaviors. Right? So if you're not living them and your team is seeing your example, then you know, those behaviors get embedded into them.
[00:14:54] So it's important for core values that. When you're creating these, no matter the size of the company, like your leadership team needs to already embody these, because if they don't, then you're going to reinforce the wrong things or they'll see that, Hey, these things don't actually matter because your leadership team doesn't care about them.
[00:15:13] They don't do them and nothing ever sticks. And that's the problem I've had for when I was in. Are there any firms we'd always do this strategic planning, these big visions and no, like nothing would ever get followed through on because core leadership didn't embody or really care. They weren't involved from the start on a lot of these topics.
[00:15:38] They didn't lead the charge for anything. So when everyone saw that core leadership was not, you know, championing these movements, these changes. It all got thrown out the window because nobody cared at the end of the day because they knew it wasn't taken seriously. So for everything that you're saying, right.
[00:15:55] Leadership, showing examples, having awards, you know, commending people on doing a great job and reinforcing behaviors when it's not done correctly or up to core values is a big, big deal. Yeah, for sure. Well, that goes back to the trust aspect of it. If, you know, you can say that you have, Supportiveness or something as one of your values, but if your, your top leaders are screaming at each other and meetings, well, then that just shows the example that then the next line down can start screaming at each other.
[00:16:31] And then that trickles down to the next line down, and then they're screaming at each other. And then you wonder why you in the construction world, you go out to the field and stuff, and they're just having this totally toxic environment of. Nobody respecting each other, nobody trusts each other. And you're like, well, where'd this come from?
[00:16:49] And point the finger back at you. Cause you started it. Yeah. Sometimes it helps to take a deep look in that mirror. We even go as far with our core values as we base our quarterly quarterly reviews on those core values. That's about a third of our entire review process. And so we, we try to. To embody it ourselves all the time.
[00:17:12] But then we also show, you know, very frequently, at least four times a year that, you know, this is very important. This, these are the five items that will make or break your success here. And, I mean, they're not negotiables and it, it almost as a, as a leader, it makes it, it makes it easier, not easy, but easier to make those hard decisions.
[00:17:32] Because look, this is it. Non-negotiables, these are our core values. If you break these, I don't have to think twice will you're gone, but you know, anything else you can fail fast and learn from it. But, but we, we hold those values very dear and that's, that's kind of our are written in stone rules. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:53] I mean, it, that's critical on building that trust because then people can have the confidence that. They're not going to get, if they are in a situation where they ha they are put in a tough call, that they know where to go, and then they know what to do. They have the expectations clearly laid out. I think when it's murky and they don't know what to do next, that's where problems arise.
[00:18:18] In any situation you have, the rules clearly laid out and defined. Not that you're not going to have problems, but they're hopefully going to be a lot less than not as disruptive.
[00:18:35] Yeah, and I mean, this all comes down to repetition, right? You've got to constantly beat that drum of core values, examples, and just repeat it until you're blue in the face and then do it again. without that repetition, nothing good. Kind of comes of it. Right. It's not ingrained. It's not embedded. And again, if you can't rattle off your core values, you don't know them.
[00:18:58] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Consistency is the key. I, I have three kids, five and under, and so I often equate it to parenting, but if I can't tell my, my three-year-old to do something and expect it to be done at the first time, it would be awesome if it was done on the first time. But, No, it's not going to be, so I have to keep on saying it, put your shoes on now, go put your shoes out, go put your shoes out.
[00:19:28] Then eventually she's going to go put her shoes on. But, yeah, sorry. That was a little rabbit trail. the consistency is huge. I like it. And, and do me a favor if you ever figure out that, that tell him one time thing. Let me know. Cause I also have three. My oldest is 14. It still takes more than one time with him.
[00:19:49] It would be an amazing trick. Yes.
[00:19:54] Shifting gears a little bit with, you know, technology and construction. Ultimately it still comes down to the people. Right. And that's never really going away, but what are, some of the ways that you guys look to help integrate technology into construction in the workflows? And just helping people with that process.
[00:20:17] Yeah. I think it's a great question. It's something that we, we talk a lot about on bridging the gap and I think you almost have to take a couple steps back when you're thinking through. Successful technology adoption. And it's, it's really what are those foundational kind of building block elements that are needed to have in place before you can even really think about technology and a huge building block of that is the culture element that we were just talking about.
[00:20:46] I think another aspect is, you know, having good leadership that is embracing the it's okay to fail. Mindset. and that's something that is doesn't come naturally to anybody, but especially it doesn't come naturally. I think to construction, failures, it's a very bad four letter word in construction.
[00:21:09] So, kind of having that leadership de-stigmatize that because no software is gonna roll out without a kink or, you know, something that you have to work through it and that you didn't really. Think through it and prepare it. Even the best implementation plans have something that come up in the real world that is going to throw you for a loop.
[00:21:31] and so having that mindset of fail fast, but it's okay to fail, fail fast, and then learn from it and grow and adapt. and then that growth mindset is huge as well, too. So I think without kind of those big building blocks, You can have the best technology in the world. You're not going to go anywhere with it.
[00:21:56] and then when you get to the implementation phase, really think through your plan, what is, what's the goal that you are trying to accomplish and then work backwards from that? What are the, the behind, you know, KPIs that you can put in place to, to measure that it's successful or hopefully have some early warning, KPIs in there as well, too, that this is.
[00:22:20] Not going the exact way that we thought so that you can adjust and readapt, and maybe it was that your expectation was wrong. Maybe it's that you have to, you didn't have the right expectation in there, or you didn't have the right KPI that you're measuring. And so you have to tweak and adapt. and so being agile enough that you can, you know, move quickly, but kind of trust, but verify mentality.
[00:22:47] through that. And we talked about it too. The, having a growth mindset, you know, in construction is a lot of the kind of embedded hard coding over, you know, a lot of years, a lot of gray hairs, and this is the way we've always done it mentality. We didn't get sued on this one, nothing went wrong. you know, how do you overcome like that, that mentality from.
[00:23:12] Especially from leadership. That's been in the industry for 20, 30, 50 years. Yeah. I think you got to tread carefully for sure. the, my, my initial reaction is I absolutely despise what somebody says. This is the way we've always done it because you're, you're just totally closed up. that's a, that's a me thing, but, I think.
[00:23:39] I'm going to circle back to empathy. So, eh, you have to wean in with that empathy because you're not changing that mentality of the person that is using the line. This is the way we've always done it. They're using that kind of as a smokescreen, almost of their. You know, maybe apprehensive to look at something new.
[00:24:02] Maybe they're, they're worried that if they roll it out there, that's a lot of risk it, what if it doesn't work? And so I think being able to have the conversation in the way of, okay, well, what are you at the end of the day? What are you trying to accomplish? You know, what are your real goals that you want to do?
[00:24:20] What was success look like for you instead of saying, well, You're an idiot. Like you got to adapt or die. This is, this is the new innovative workflow. This is where it's going. Whether you like it or not, that's just going to lead people to dig in their heels. And so by framing the conversation in, well, let's back up, what are you trying to get?
[00:24:39] What's your goal? What are you trying to accomplish? I think it allows them to kind of lower their guard down and you can start picking up clues of what they're really interested in because. A lot of times when people say that this is the way we've always done it. It's not a hard, no on, I will never change something, but they're scared to change.
[00:25:04] And so you got to walk slower, it's a sign that you need to take your time, take a breath and really walk through it, talk through it with them, make them feel comfortable with it. And then. He's the change it slowly, and they'll start coming around as they start building that trust in it. if you try to go too fast with it, then it is going to be that hard now.
[00:25:27] And you know, you guys service the full AEC industry, but I got to imagine that the construction side of that, that they, you know, that triad there is the hardest to sell to because I don't know how you'd do it, to be honest with you, especially, you know, in your role as director of creative marketing. To go and market software to a group of individuals that historically has done everything they can to avoid software and avoid innovation.
[00:25:55] It's gotta be nearly impossible sometimes. I, I think it's a fun challenge. it definitely construction does take a very different approach to it than the and side of AEC. But at the end of the day it's it's it's people. And so you're going to have those, people that are resistant to it. But what I see in constructionists kind of this, reawakening almost, that there's a lot more people out there that are ready and excited to embrace new workflows and bring in technology and it's already happening.
[00:26:38] It's just that those stories don't get told. I think that there's, there's more, and maybe this is my vantage point, I'm biased, but I think that there's a marketing problem in construction and that construction does a bad job of telling their stories of technology and innovation. And so, and then the stories that do get out there are on these, you know, ridiculously huge projects that make you're like, okay, that's cool.
[00:27:06] They, you know, assembled. This building like Legos in four days. No normal average project. Yeah. I was going to use that. Yeah. So it's just not relevant. And so I think construction as a whole and the people that are willing to embrace technology and willing to change up workflows, the onus is on them to do a better job of telling the stories on how you can do that on everyday projects and create those efficiencies and create that effectiveness that you get in those, Yeah, sexy or big project stories that are shared.
[00:27:43] That's a great answer. And I think that the construction industry as a whole is terrible about telling any stories other than, you know, the, the, Oh shit, big failure stories. And I think, you know, we could all stand to get better from that. And I, I'm a construction guy. I've been in the industry for 23 years.
[00:28:02] I'm on the embracing technology side of it. otherwise I don't think dealing would have me around anymore, but, but there's so much of it that. You know, we don't tell our stories about our wins regardless. It's just finished project. Alright. You can celebrate for 15 minutes tomorrow morning, get back in here and start the next one.
[00:28:21] And we've got to keep churning and burning. And I think if we took time to start telling stories all across the board, we'd all be better off for it. And maybe it would help you also on your side, if, if we all kind of embrace that, that storytelling culture environment a little bit more. Yeah, I agree. I also think it, it plays into the skilled labor shortage that, you know, everybody's sick of hearing, but it's still still thing.
[00:28:51] because if you know the average high school or coming out of high school, you ask them what they think of the construction industry and they are going to paint. I think, Radically different picture of what construction is than what it really is in reality, because I think all too often, construction is viewed as it's a job.
[00:29:13] There's no real career path there. Uh we're we all know that's not the case. You can do so many different things in the construction industry, whether it's on, you know, out in the field, you can do. Really cool things working on, leveraging, amazing tools in drones and scanners and all this stuff. Or you can go into the software side, you can go either.
[00:29:35] There's a plethora of things that you can, can dive into. and there's cool stuff that, that would really appeal to high schoolers, but they don't know it. Brother you're on the right show. We could probably railroad this thing and go on for hours. On, on that last two minutes. You just, you just let loose because Dylan and I have talked about that exact same thing.
[00:30:00] I don't know every episode that I've recorded with him. it's a huge problem. Right. And it doesn't get solved without us, at least talking about it. You know, that's the first step is, is, is back to storytelling, getting people to see the culture and see the opportunity out there. And, you know, construction is not just banging nails all day.
[00:30:22] It's just not, there's, there's a huge, huge world out there that doesn't get explored too often. Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, the, the first step is admitting you have a problem saying, you know, hi, I'm construction industry. We have a marketing problem. We need to do a better job of bringing people in. yeah, I think we got to do that as an industry.
[00:30:45] Yeah. One of the things in there too is. And it's like, so coming from the design side is, is a reluctance to share the projects that we work on, right. A reluctance to anything that's not, or a finished rendering to put out. and then a lot of it is like, you can put out projects without putting a name to it.
[00:31:06] Cause that's really what the like, fear is in design that, you know, if somebody sees this, that we're working on, like, and they tie this image to whatever they were going to have a huge problem. So on the like architecture and design side, it's like a fear of putting things out that aren't finished products or approved or anything like that.
[00:31:26] So I think if we get over some of the. The fear of the reluctance of sharing images. Like you can strip away all the, like telling details of a, of a building of a project. Again, it's not reality yet. Hey, this is just a cool thing that we designed then by sharing more, you know, sharing things that are on job sites.
[00:31:49] I think that there's a big reluctance in doing a lot of that. For various reasons, but if we can get over that or at least talk to owners about, Hey, what can we share when can't we share, what are you okay with? Then we can get more out, you know, as we go to job sites, do. Project walks, design things do review sessions, right?
[00:32:10] Like all those types of things become part now of that projects, life cycle that can be used to bring people into the industry to, in some cases could be used, even highlight a project for an owner, right. To show like the design processes and things that. You go through to create a building to market, whatever that building is, again, we're in construction.
[00:32:33] Most of it, the things we do are public spaces. So people are going to want to show up to that office building or convention center or school, right. Whatever it might be to, to help share that process and putting this big thing into a community, right? Whether that's attracting, tenants for a multi-use project or.
[00:32:56] Residents, you know, for that same project. So I think you're, you're spot on in the marketing thing and it's one having these conversations, but also to find ways to do a little more and to share a little more with keeping in the bounds of that, you know, owner, contractor, design, architect relationship.
[00:33:18] Yeah. I th I think you bring up an interesting dynamic there as well to Dylan in that. You got to get the owners on board and seeing the value of sharing all that information, because realistically, without them on board, it's going to come to a screeching halt. So, but there's an incredible amount of value that they would gain by kind of loosening the grip on that summon.
[00:33:46] I think a lot would be open for and wanting to share it. They just don't. I don't think about it. you know, they're, they got other things to sit around and do with their time besides thinking about this. So we, as an industry, you have to come up and say, Hey, this is where we should be going. This is what we should be doing.
[00:34:04] And this is why it's of importance to you. It's if we are sitting around, waiting for the owners to come up and go, no, it would be a great idea. Let's do this. It's probably not going to happen at least in, in, the timeline that it should happen. Yeah. So a great example of this Gensler largest architecture firm in the world, their pre architecture and branding, is there two main things that they do?
[00:34:33] So their architecture, interior design firm branding firm, and they do a considerable amount of their revenue and branding. They do a billion dollars a year in revenue. It's insane. And Gensler's not even that old. So one of the things that they've done really, really well is. Right. Architecture is about branding and space.
[00:34:53] So like, think of any project that you do, whether it's a school hospital office, doesn't matter, there's going to be a marketing aspect of that. And for as Todd, as you know, every piece of marketing needs, an image needs, a video needs some sort of creative collateral and who better to do that than the design team for that building, for that project.
[00:35:15] And. It's something that we don't think about as an industry. You don't think about marketing project other than to the owner, not to the public. but that is a big service that can be rendered by design firms. Gensler does it better than anybody and is the largest in the world and shows for that, you know, and it's extremely,
[00:35:44] I, I wish I could get my, my common architects to start marketing projects like that, along with us, you know, it's, it's, it's just not something that they typically do. I don't really understand why, because I mean, we do it. Oh, it looks like we lost our guests. We, we do it. I do it, you know, on our current projects and there's always this air.
[00:36:10] This air of secretiveness in our industry too, because, you know, especially from the design build side, there's a level of how much can I talk about without risking somebody else coming in and trying to, you know, grab my prize. obviously once you get contracted and start a project, it's all bets are off we'll, we'll plaster it all over our media channels.
[00:36:34] But, but even before that, you know, we have. Like we've talked about, we have sales cycles that could run a year before we put a shovel in the ground. And there's a lot of cool, interesting things that happen during that time. It's not just sitting in front of a computer, you know, on an Excel spreadsheet.
[00:36:51] There's, there's a lot of design, there's a lot of collaboration. there's all kinds of back and forth communication. So to find a way that we can kind of share some of that without revealing too much, I think it would be, it would be really useful for us. I think a lot of that comes to stripping the names off of that project, because that's, I think one of the biggest fears for projects is that, you know, for like your community center, that you gave it a name, you put a design to it and then it doesn't turn out like that.
[00:37:26] That's like the biggest fear that I think people are. And then two is, you know, not having that, Branded named for that project. You know, it was a big fear that people run into. So there's, there's definitely some secretiveness, but you can put out a lot of material, a lot of content and just say, look at this community center design, look at this project type, look at this, whatever.
[00:37:53] Right. It doesn't ever have to be built. There's no name to it. There's no like location. So people don't tie anything to it. It's just like, Oh, that's cool. Right. And I think that goes a heck of a long way in just again, showcasing what we can do in construction, both on the, you know, from the design side, as well as like the phases and, you know, everything that's behind a ceiling and a wall in a project that nobody ever sees, right.
[00:38:22] For a, or a mechanical penthouse or any of those spaces that get covered up, they get lost, they get, you know, Never to be seen again. I like that. And I never had really thought about it this way until you just said that, but that alone could be a great way to start attracting youth to the industry, whether it's through the design or construction side, you know, kind of showing the step-by-step, you know, from, from concept through completion, but all the nitty gritty in between, you know, that that could be a really.
[00:38:56] a good marketing ploy, I think, especially to get, you know, young kids is coming into high school, more interested in what it is we do. Yeah. I mean, again, it's a, it's a marketing problem, but I think just sharing, beating that drum of there's a lot of, a lot of cool things in construction, a lot of, you know, cool things that we do is, is definitely a big deal.
[00:39:27] Welcome back, Todd, this is ironic. They're doing construction around me and knocked out my wifi. Sorry about that nails damn contractors. They do it every time. Yeah, it's a big fun of live. Well, welcome back. We were just, Kind of re-engaging on kind of the secretiveness of our, especially the construction side and then the almost scared, nervous, or, or unwillingness to share much of anything until you have a contract signed.
[00:40:05] And Dylan was kind of touching on, on some strategies to, you know, strip all the pertinent, sensitive information off, but, but still showing, you know, the parts and pieces because you know, the, the pre-construction side of what we do or what I do and what. You know, the AEC industry does is, is so full of interesting stuff.
[00:40:25] It's not just staring at a screen, so trying to find ways to show that off and, and hopefully use it to attract new talent.
[00:40:52] I think I'm back now on unreal wifi stuff, right? Sorry about this. No worries, your honor. I was here at it. You just got to tell those guys that call before they dig boats. Yeah. Get it marked up. Come on. Basic stuff, right.
[00:41:15] We're we're kind of coming up on time, I think. But, Todd, I wanted to ask you non-construction related. I spent a little time kind of digging through your LinkedIn profile, you know, just doing some show prep. What can you tell me about the thunderbolts swim team? Yeah. Part of that for a long time, it looks like long time.
[00:41:33] Yeah. Yeah. So swimming's been a huge part of my life for, basically my entire life. I'm I'm the youngest of three. and so I got thrown onto the swim team when I was three years old because my sisters were there and my parents were like, Oh, You're already here. So might as well join the swim team. and that sort of thing actually joined up with the thunderbolts when I was seven or eight.
[00:41:57] So I have been a part of that my whole life growing up and then started coaching. When I was, I helped out with 1600 when I was like 13, 12 or 13 and got the coaching bug for it and have been there ever since. So, I am. Yeah. A long time, but 30 plus years or something with, with the bolts. And so every single summer I, I come back and put on my, my purple and, Don my, my Thunderbolt.
[00:42:28] And yeah, I love it. It's a, it's a big passion. That's very cool. Are your kids swimmers yet? yeah, so this is the first year that my oldest is going to be on the team. He's five this year. And so he's coming on. I swore that I would not be a intense swim dad. and I wouldn't be one of those coaches that I was like, you're going to be the, the greatest thing in the world and you're gonna be on it as soon as you can start moving.
[00:42:57] so he's a little. Is often my, my path at three coming on at five, but I guess the jury is still out. If I'm going to be that it's super intense coaching, swim dad. Cause this will be my first season with it, which will be fun. That should be fun. No.
[00:43:18] So one of the other things that we talk about in construction is, or people might have that fear of is technology coming for your job. And, you know, as being in software, being in technology, how has, how do you guys rebut that or deal with it in your marketing messages and just in conversation to, to the industry?
[00:43:42] Yeah. I don't see it as a threat. I know this. I'm supposed to say that, but I really don't. I don't see it as a threat because it. to me, it allows people to do what they wanted to do in the first place. It gives you the ability to do the creative aspects of the job and can get more strategic with it.
[00:44:01] Instead of having to worry about all the mundane tasks that nobody likes to do anyway, that you have to just, you know, point and click in and do it a hundred times. Well, why not automate that and streamline that process so that you're not just having to, you know, point and click that you can, it, it allows you the freedom to.
[00:44:20] Do things that are more fun and more creative. So why would you not want to take that up? I get all the other arguments too, that it's I get how it seems threatening and scary. I'm not trying to minimize that, but I think it's a perspective change that you have to go through that it's it's not coming for your job.
[00:44:41] It is going to take some aspects of your job away, but it should be the mundane parts that you didn't like doing anyway. So. Don't complain too loud, I guess.
[00:44:54] Yeah. I mean, how I view that is, you know, we talk about it a little bit is ultimately you can't get projects done as it is today, right? You can't, you can't find the people, you can't get the projects done. There's no other way. Right? Historically, it's been, people were easy to find, to bring into the industry.
[00:45:13] Plenty of people came into construction and now we don't have that big influx of. Talent skilled labor, you know, on both sides, design and construction. So the only way to ultimately get projects without working 80 hour weeks is technology. That's the only way that I've seen it for awhile is people are working so hard.
[00:45:35] And then heaven forbid like I was talking to an architect friend heaven forbid if somebody is out on vacation or two people are out on vacation for spring break and you have deadlines. You know, like, like, contemplating life changes. Yeah. I think that's spot on. I agree
[00:45:58] with this and you know, we can talk about technology. We could talk about core values. All these are huge things, but what is maybe the biggest thing that you see? Facing construction, you know, outside of our marketing problem and maybe that's it, but, you know, what else do you see is one of the biggest problems that we have within the industry?
[00:46:22] Yeah, I really do think it is that, that marketing problem of comparing or
[00:46:31] tying that to the willingness to try something and get over the failure of what we've already talked about. I think. We are our own worst enemies in construction right now. We're our biggest impediment where the biggest stumbling block, the people are the biggest, source of potential in construction, but it's also, you know, the, the blessing and the curse is it's the biggest stumbling block right now is getting over, you know, head trash of what used to be versus what is, and then.
[00:47:06] Circling back to something that I brought up earlier of the talking past each other and not taking the time to really sit and understand where the other person's coming from. I think that's the, to me, that's the biggest stumbling block. All the other ingredients are, are there in construction right now to really take off and do some really cool things.
[00:47:26] And I think really be the, the tip of the spear in a lot of cases on, You know, not just the innovation, but on the tech side as well, too. I think that you see all the new people coming into the content space all the time. and I think in the next few years, one of the powerhouse tech companies is going to be in the construction industry.
[00:47:50] Maybe that's a decade away, but I think you're going to start seeing that, if people can get out of their own way,
[00:48:01] I couldn't have said it better. Yeah. Just gotta stop tripping over ourselves.
[00:48:10] We totally agree, Todd. where can they find you? Yeah, LinkedIn I'm on there all the time. It's I. Slight not slight addiction to LinkedIn. So that's a great place to, to find me. Bridget pod.com is the website for the podcast. And then, aspi.com is applied software. Awesome. Awesome. And, here at the end too, I'd love you to, to pitch a little bit on MEP force.
[00:48:43] Yeah. so MEP for us is, the. Premiere, conference for the MEP space. So everything about it is geared to MEP and whether that's on the technology side or the workflow side, or even some of this cultural stuff, we're going to have some round tables on how do we, as an MVP industry help move forward.
[00:49:08] And how do we embrace some of that growth mindset, but there's a ton of classes that are just incredible amount of training. As well on all the different softwares that are out there. and then one of the, the, the biggest aspect of it is the networking part. It's we have, we're aiming for over 2000 people come into MEP force this year.
[00:49:30] And so it's a incredible opportunity to interact with the movers and shakers and, and learn from peers in the industry of what they're doing, how they're adapting to new things, how are they handling the software? How are they handling, you know, W w w all the craziness of the last year, how are, how are they embracing that growth mindset?
[00:49:51] And so there's ton of opportunities to interact with all those people. And that's something that we take really seriously and really build a lot of intentionality around it, of how we can connect those people. It's going to be virtual again this year. Maybe some in-person elements, fingers crossed on, on how everything goes.
[00:50:09] But, yeah, there's. There's a lot of personal touch outside of what you typically think of for even on the virtual conference space and hopefully next year we can all be back in person together for the whole thing. Yeah. We're, we're both definitely hoping on that. And the reason I want to have you talk about it is guys like on the design side, especially we.
[00:50:38] Maybe don't always go to conferences, reprise, probably the lacking one in there. The, our construction partners typically go more often than we do. And it's something that, you know, I want to encourage whether it's , whether it's, a you, whether, you know, there's plenty of other conferences out there to go to, but, you know, continue to education, right?
[00:50:58] This is the whole, whole basis of a growth mindset is to go and learn from others to connect within the industry and not be always so. close knit, so minded and to go and, you know, experience other things, get exposed to different technologies and workflows and people right across the industry. that's what these conferences are for if you've never been to any, any conference at all.
[00:51:23] They're, they're typically a great time. You know, you make as many friends at the bar as you do at the showroom floor, and the conference floor. So I encourage people to go to conferences, obviously this year. Last with most being virtual, it's not as, you know, maybe interactive, but, to still find ways to connect with other people across the industry, share some best practices.
[00:51:47] Again, if you're across the country more than likely you're not competitors anyway. So, it's, it's good to just share those best practices and you'll be surprised you're going to learn. Amen. Couldn't agree more, man. Any closing words, Matt. Todd, I just want to thank you for coming on. I, I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and, hopefully we can continue it again sometime.
[00:52:18] Yeah. Likewise. Thanks for having me any, a closing, parting words, Todd. no thanks. Thanks for having me. I really, really appreciate it. This is there's so many different. Rabbit trails that we could continue to go down first year on this topic. Definitely. Yeah. Guys, Todd, thank you so much for coming on.
[00:52:41] We love talking about core values. We love talking about this industry. We love, you know, sharing what we've learned, what we can do better and how, and at the end of the day, for everybody out there. Guys to just talk about the industry. Talk about the cool things. Talk about all of the things that are behind closed doors, close walls, close ceilings, and, you know, share the cool things about construction and what's going on.
[00:53:04] it's really the biggest message that we can continue to impart, upon everybody is to share this message, share the message. That construction is a great industry. You know, check out, bridging the gap, with Todd, they do a great job over there. And again, Thank you all for listening until next time.