#129 Data Driven Decisions in Engineering with Kameron Beeks

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the construction corner podcast. I'm Dillon, I'm your host and joined now as always by my blue collar. Bad-ass Matt. How's it going, man? Things are good, Dillon. It's uh, it's been a great week here. A little crazy. We are we're in that period of, of the year that my wife and I affectionately call hell month.

[00:00:24] Between construction, just being busy in general in the spring. And we have three boys playing four or five different sports right now. It's there there's hardly time to breathe, but it's a lot of fun. Yeah. My parents were super happy when I got my license and can drive myself and my sister, but I'm pretty sure every parent you know, it looks forward to that day, for sure, for sure.

[00:00:48] Actually real quick before we get started, So we don't typically go after public work at Shaffer construction. We're more of a design build firm. Sometimes, especially when it's in our backyard, we will, we'll do the plants background. And we, we did that recently. we want a project on Tuesday and I just wanted to throw a quick shout out to a guy.

[00:01:08] it came down to my, my firm and another firm. And this is so atypical in our industry. And we might touch on this today in conversation anyways, but after we were awarded the project on late Wednesday night, I got a message, direct message from the leader of the other firm, just congratulating me and, and that sort of thing.

[00:01:27] So Jeff, I know you listen once in a while wanted to say thank you. I thought that was pretty cool. And I wish more people in our industry would act that way. That is super cool. And yeah. As we get into it, it's going to be a, a big point that we're going to touch on today because I've worked at a bunch of engineering firms and there's a few that left a real bad taste in my mouth on the way out and things like that in congratulating people on a win, right?

[00:02:01] Because especially in things that are in your community, in your backyard, You're going to be a part of, so you want, you want that project to Vieques success? You're probably going to go to that building, especially if it's a public type project. So, you know, grace on both sides winning not being awarded a project.

[00:02:21] Hugely important, treating people with respect across the board. you know, whether they're competitors or not, you're more than likely going to work with those people in some way, shape or form, especially in our industry. and even if they don't work in your local jurisdiction, you're going to run into them at a conference at some event somewhere.

[00:02:45] Our industry is not that big guys. Uh, having a little grace is. Just that having a little grace, it goes a long way. Absolutely. So, no, thank you for sharing that without further ado, I'd love to introduce our guests this week. Cameron beaks cam you're uh, your people gave me a wonderful bio and I'm gonna go off script here.

[00:03:11] So as getting to know you a little bit and. Really going through your bio. I was I'm super impressed, man. As a, you know, you graduated from Oregon state in 2013 with honors as a mechanical engineer, you worked through school through your last two years. And to still graduate with honors is super impressive.

[00:03:31] And then to really ascend the corporate ladder very quickly, you know, getting your license, becoming an associate 2015 VP in 2017, a sector. Lead for education at Glumac in 2019. I mean, this is kind of an unheard Ascension in our, our industry, but totally, totally possible. And then, you know, you've written software for engineering programs, you brought automation and really forward thinking too.

[00:04:00] An industry that needs it in a lot of ways. And then, you know, from some of the personal things that you've gone through with just stress and health issues to battle through that and still be on top of your game and, and lead a team lead, you know, a group of engineers, is just truly impressive. So welcome to the show.

[00:04:21] What a, what a humbling introduction. I, I really appreciate it to be on the show. Dillon, excited to have the conversation today. And I guess with that, how how'd you get your start at Glumac as you know, the probably summer of your sophomore year you know, be where you are today. Yeah. Well, it's funny because there's people that actually know the real answer to this.

[00:04:48] So if I ever were to change the story, wouldn't only be lying. so I give a lot of credit to, you know, of course my folks, but I give a lot of credit in particular to my maternal grandmother. all throughout middle school and my early youth, she was talking about just the importance of energy and how energy is a tremendous opportunity.

[00:05:09] Not only to make an impact on the world, but also a career decision, because we will always need energy. We will always need water and being aware of those things and seeing if there's a way you can get involved, with the development and creation for how people interact with those types of.

[00:05:24] Necessities, is a huge career opportunity. So a lot of props to, you know, my Nana for introducing me to the industry. And what's funny is that when I was in high school, I grew up in Sherwood, Oregon. And when you go to high school there, they give you this sign up for these courses and put down your goal of what you want to do.

[00:05:44] And the goal I wrote and I was in eighth grade at the time I wrote that I wanted to design lead buildings. and so that's what I wrote down as a goal in eighth grade. And. Went through high school and eventually went to Oregon state. I was a part of their honors college because the class sizes there were about 20 or so students.

[00:06:01] so it was a tremendous opportunity for me to get one-on-one time with a lot of professors that cared about student success. And then I just happened to be at a career fair my freshman year. And I started out in college as a civil engineer. Because like many college students, I knew I wanted to get involved in something but being arrogant.

[00:06:20] And I know it all as a senior in high school, I chose the wrong major. And so I was quickly corrected. It was fall quarter at Oregon state of the career fair that I met Judy of Meyer, who is an Oregon state alum. And she was a senior electrical engineer and project manager at Glumac. And she said, well, you're saying all the right things, you care about the built environment.

[00:06:40] You care about energy, but why are you a civil engineer? Because they do a lot of lateral infrastructure work and we're in the vertical infrastructure environment. And we think that you should change your degree, nothing against civils when it comes to water, resiliency and water is a basic human need.

[00:06:57] Phenomenal phenomenal career path, but I was a little bit more attracted to the energy aspects of it. And in particular commercial HBS and net zero or net positive energy. And so I switched my major after my conversation with her or Mitch DEC, who was a senior associate at Glumac at the time. And then Remley Wilson, who was a principal he's since retired also Glumac and switched my degree to mechanical.

[00:07:23] Finish up my freshman year, then went into my sophomore year, met with Glumac again at a career fair. And I that's when things started to become real and I gave them my resume, say I switched my major. I'm in the honors college, I'm taking a bunch of the U S GBC courses. And to all the students that may be listening to this, you can go above and beyond and demonstrate your interest in the industry by finding alternative learning.

[00:07:46] Techniques or learning programs that are out there online that you can register for. And you can go up above and beyond to make your resume really stand out in comparison to everybody else's. So I wanted to differentiate myself. So I signed up for some of these U S GBC courses learned a little bit about lead came into the room, not really knowing anything, but knowing at least a little bit compared to my competition, you know, you need to run faster than the person next to you when you're running from a bear.

[00:08:12] and so. I got my dream job. My sophomore summer, I was working at active watersports down in Clackamas, Oregon. Cause I grew up playing water sports my entire life and I just thought, oh, what a cool gig. I'm going to be able to go water skiing and wakeboarding all summer long. And then I get this phone call from Glumac and it's like, We want to hire you.

[00:08:33] So whatever you're doing right now, you need to be here on this date and stuff. The rest is history. You know, they brought me on after my sophomore year, I had the absolute privilege of working with Mr. Steve Strauss, who was the president at the time I was his intern for three months, and then they were more than gracious to offer me a 32 hour employment show.

[00:08:51] When I went back to school and the engineering buildings were actually across the street from Glumac and next to Glumac was a Jimmy John's. And a coffee shop. So I could go to school, I could get my lunch, get coffee, go to work. And then I'd be able to go home at the end of the day and work on whatever projects.

[00:09:06] And of course don't get any sleep because you know, I'm working way to my form in school trying to make, make it through it. So that's how I got into this industry, man. It's been a hold on and I try and keep up the rest of the way, right? Uh, yeah. So I went to high school. I born in Virginia, but I. Moved to Oregon for high school and lived on the Oregon coast.

[00:09:30] So I lived in Brookings and ye so it's, it's like San Francisco, you know, the coldest winter he ever had was a summer in San Francisco. That's basically the same thing, fog all all the time rains, 120 inches a year. It's, you know, temporary rainforest wood that my, my neighbor was a electrical engineer, retired and he worked for.

[00:09:55] Decades at Lawrence Livermore national lab, he worked on a lot of laser programs and star wars and energy. Was there kind of next frontier and trying to do a vision, which I think they've been able to sustain some reactions, at least talked about it publicly. So, growing up off the grid, all that stuff energy is kind of near and dear to what I'm I'm about as well.

[00:10:19] Yeah. That is impressive to say the least the workload that it takes to do what you did. I did it for a while. I worked in construction and ran companies while I was putting myself through college. Certainly not. I don't think to the degree that you did so hats off for that. Cause that that is no small feat to keep up with all of that.

[00:10:42] It's about like doing four full-time jobs. There's a lot of really tremendous people that I had to work with. And then, I say it because it's true. I all the time, the only reason why I graduated college is because of the group of people that I studied with that would bring me up to speed way faster.

[00:10:58] And it just really goes to the importance of surrounding yourself with good people, absolutely farming, forming a mastermind of people that can help bring you up as the C. It doesn't matter what industry you're in. Yep, exactly. Yeah.

[00:11:15] one of the, I guess, the next things in that. So you've designed all types of systems over the years and. In mechanical, especially there's, there's been for sure some advancements and how we designed buildings, but a lot of the traditional systems that we designed, like VVS have been around for 50 years, you know, chilled beams, for sure.

[00:11:39] A newer thing that we're seeing put in more projects. Uh, definitely the technology isn't super old, or it kind of is, but I guess elaborate on. In talking about net zero and some of those things that we're really seeing, especially in California for building design, which we all know this eventually gives to the rest of the country.

[00:12:03] Uh, when we talk about energy, but how from a mechanical engineering standpoint, are you looking at systems, system designs for a lot of your projects these days? Ye really good question. So I actually try and get involved with net zero buildings, even before we start considering systems. I, if we can focus on the massing and if we can get all of our glazing waste facing to the north and we limit the amount of Southwest glazing, and if we, you know, look it overhangs on the Southern facade and optimize what angle that, that, that.

[00:12:37] Shaving needs to be, or how far out it needs to extend from the building. if we focus on putting our back of house spaces on the south or west side of the building so that we don't need those openings, you know, causing the solar heat gain. And of course that's driven by a solar type building, of course, talking about Los Angeles specifically in colder climates.

[00:12:54] You know, that sign up in Michigan is more than welcome. but again, it's, it's taking a look at the Massey and taking a look at how the building's actually opening up to the environment. And optimizing the massing first. I think that a lot of technologies and systems have allowed us to become lazy in design and we are relying on systems and technology to actually bail us out.

[00:13:16] So I take a philosophy of reduce, reuse, renewable, and then reinforce. Those are kind of the four steps that I take with regards to the industrial energy. So first and foremost, you reduce as much energy as you possibly can. On the project when you're just talking about the massing first, and then you start talking about systems and figuring out, okay, how can I look at systems?

[00:13:35] Whether that's just a highly efficient air handling unit with the AB system, because they can, if designed correctly, be highly efficient. With active children's. I want to save that for another point that I want to make, but again, another highly efficient system pushing water around highly more efficient than pushing air around.

[00:13:50] So of course, radiant systems are a great technology out there as well. Uh, and then you start talking about reuse. So you want to reuse as much waste heat or. Energy as you possibly can. You want to research, relate that back into the building? So now we're talking about things like variable refrigerant flow with heat recovery.

[00:14:06] You're talking about heat, recovery, chillers, but not making every single chiller module, heat recovery. Just the ones that you think you'll need to handle your B's heating load and nothing more than that. You do supplemental heating systems that are a lot more cost-effective to handle those peak heating days.

[00:14:21] And then once you get through that reuse cycle, of course you can do crazy things like recovering heat off of sewer lines. And you know, other things like that, the power pipe that you can go buy at home Depot is extremely cost-effective. And I always recommend it for, you know, when you bring back gray water to a centralized location in your building, because gray water is roughly ambient temperature, which is usually warmer than the groundwater.

[00:14:43] So you get some free heating or preheating of your domestic hot water system, just because you have toilet water coming down the drain. Well, the water sits in the toilet bowl. That's exposed to ambient conditions. It's ambient temperature, which is warmer than that domestic water coming into a building, simple things like that, where we're reusing waste is a great next step.

[00:15:00] The last thing, and the reason why we do reduce and reuse first is because we don't want to waste a bunch of money on renewables. We don't want to solve all of our problems by throwing money at things. So going through a data-driven approach on reducing energy, reusing energy, and then maximizing your cost effectiveness at your renewable solution, whether that's wind turbines, solar, ground source, heat pumps, et cetera, that's really going to make it practical for projects.

[00:15:26] And that's the hardest thing in our industry is actually communicating in a way to an owner, to feel confident in the decision that they're making. Or to a contractor so that they feel comfortable, that the path you've set up for them to follow is not only constructable, but actually cost effective. And you know what you're doing, you know what you're actually drawing on paper because those lines matter.

[00:15:45] And the last step, and this is in my opinion, the most important we're doing this with CSU long beach right now on their net zero housing building. That's going up on other 10. and we're working on coming up with a plan for them to actually work with the students, to reinforce what this building's about.

[00:16:01] You can design a building to be net zero, but if the users and operators don't commit to using that building appropriately within the guidelines and parameters that we designed around. You can give someone a Prius all day long, but it can have the fuel mileage of a Ferrari if you drive it like a Ferrari.

[00:16:16] So it's, it's really important that the users buy in to what we're putting in front of them.

[00:16:24] Well, I'm going to jump in because quite candidly, when, when Dillon told me we were bringing another MEP engineer on board, I thought, oh boy, this is going to go one of two ways. And I can tell you that it is incredibly. Refreshing and reassuring to hear what you just said, you know, because from, from the builder side, from the contractor side, and also from a developer side, so much of what we see is, is cost driven, right?

[00:16:53] And you know, there's a, there's a contingent of the builder side that doesn't give a shit and they just want to build it. And if it, if it kills nature, but you know, burns trees and kicks kittens, nobody cares, but there's, there's a lot of us who. Who want to find that balance, but there there's so many systems out there available that, depending on if you're in Southeastern Michigan or in, in Los Angeles, they just don't make sense financially for, for both cases.

[00:17:20] so to hear you say that, you know, you start off focusing on. Uh, on the intrinsic value, but then also the economic factors on how to balance that. And not, not just installing a VRF or a heat recovery, just for the sake of installing it, but, but truly putting the thought and the time into to figuring out how it's going to benefit the end user.

[00:17:39] That's that's huge for me. So thank you. All right. So just to give you a little bit of background, Matt, So I I'd say about 70% of the work that I do, and I run a rivalry and sector nationally for Glumac and about 70% of what I'm personally in charge of as a principal in charge down here in the Southern California area, 70% of that is designed building education work for the public market sector.

[00:18:03] And so we are very familiar operating with the cost estimator and with a contractor. During, during that period con effort, we have design managers we work with so that we do cost value design. And that's highly, highly important. And if we weren't good at doing that, then I don't think the contractors would want to bring us on board to carry our egos around.

[00:18:22] Well, you're, you're speaking my language now, so we're going to have a good chat. Yeah. Well, I think that's highly important is, you know, for. A good chunk of the country and still a lot of the work that gets done. It's, you know, planning, spec it's design bid build with no true communication between the design team and the construction team, you know an engineer by and large has no idea what anything costs.

[00:18:51] Same with a lot of architects. They, they truly don't know. They, you know, like even talking about massing models and doing an energy model up front, like. A lot of architects will shake their head and just say, what's that right? Or, you know, there's a time and a place to use a lot of the tools that we have at our disposal to do things like an energy model that now you get, you can run through iterations, you can do, you know, what is this orientation look like?

[00:19:18] What does doing a sun study? Like how often does that actually happen in a project? You know, I know you guys are doing them, but like in, in general public, I think. Heck, I'm sure. Half the architects I've worked with don't even know what one is or let alone how to do one. Ye I w and what's ironic about that is that by doing those simple studies, which I, when you, when you asked that rhetorical question, I kind of laughed on the inside because I'd ask it in reverse, you know, what engineers are out there, architects that are out there that aren't doing it because they really should be.

[00:19:53] the reason why I think it should be is because that's, when you find your zero cost energy savings. or your, your low cost energy savings on projects. Uh, if you're not doing those types of things, as far as I'm going to just set this building on this block and I'm going to do whatever I want to it with little to no care.

[00:20:10] think about trying to do that type of design back when we're talking about the Roman age, right. When there was no HVDC, when there was no artificial lighting, when there was no XYZ. And again, back to my original point, technology and systems fail us out for very lackadaisical design and it doesn't take that much extra effort.

[00:20:31] And once you go through a couple of projects where you make this a part of the normal workflow, It becomes a no cost or low cost design effort. And it becomes a part of just your framework and your kind of the thread that you're cut from as a company. So, I would implore everybody listening to this to, you know, just reach out and we're all trying to make the industry a better place and reach out to people like Dillon and like Matt and myself, because, you know, there's some simple techniques that we try and employ on every single project, just because of it makes it just a little bit better.

[00:21:03] Yeah. 100%. Go ahead, Matt. So I was going to save this question to later, but we're kind of already touching on it. you know, your, your focus now sounds like on, on pretty large projects and the education sector, how do you take the technology and, and some of the net zero or close to net, zero technology and options, and scale it down to a smaller project, you know, to a 12,000 square foot building, let's say in a, in a rural area and.

[00:21:34] Leave me to decide how to sell it to the owner because that's, that's a different story, but how physically can you scale that down so that they can see some of the same same cost benefits, same environmental benefits, but obviously it's not in the same, the same scheme that you would see in a, in a college per se.

[00:21:51] Ye it, well, it starts at the massing, right? So I have a roughly it's I think 16,000, 18,000 square foot building in construction right now, it'll be done in a month or two and that's net zero. and in, in all reality, smaller buildings are much, much easier to deliver net zero. Uh, if you look at all the living buildings that are out there, and I think the total number of living buildings that exist is still in the twenties.

[00:22:16] But if you look at the square footage for those buildings, many of which are in very rural areas, and this was the only way that they could actually get the project done is by making it a net zero energy project. And that's your water project? because there were no utilities around. So if you look at the scale, the optimal scale of course is an far of around two, no more than two, because once the area of your site starts to get small in relation to the amount of area that you have your PV.

[00:22:43] Opportunity to square footage of building use becomes smaller. And so when you're talking about the scale that you're mentioning that far should be around a one or a two, and then you want to make sure the building of course is oriented east west, where you have your longer facade exposures are facing out to the north.

[00:22:59] You take care of the solar load by doing a little bit overhangs on the Southern facade and less your climate. Except that solar heat gain. You're looking at really tight envelopes in cold climates. You're looking at breathable envelopes in temperate climates. And then with regards to how you do the mechanical conditioning, you, you try and see if you can find in my opinion, I do think that VRF from an installer standpoint has become more of the norm.

[00:23:23] People are more familiar with it. They are finding cost-effectiveness with it. Is it a pair to a package unit? No it, and there's a, there's a cost premium there, but perhaps there's some cost savings on the new system sizing by again, putting your back of house spaces on those west facades on those Southwest corners.

[00:23:39] And you're moving the Backhouse spaces in the areas where you try and block off as much windows as you can, because it makes the overall system capacities smaller for your mechanical solutions that you're providing. So it's trying to shed first and foremost. And then from there, it's what, what opportunities for reuse do you have.

[00:23:55] So that scale, probably looking at variable refrigerant flow. So we're not looking at a complicated hydronic system. It's not the scale of a hydronic system. In my opinion, you're looking at a good, solid massing. You're looking at really good installation. And then you're looking at probably a photovoltaic solution.

[00:24:10] Hmm.

[00:24:14] Hey, and I respect your opinion now. So I appreciate that. Well, and I think, you know, this is probably a good segue into it. You know, we talk about a lot of data on projects and there's quite a bit of rule of thumbs, you know, like you just listed off for a lot of systems, orientations kind of good design rules of thumb, but how, how do you really think and process data in making decisions?

[00:24:43] And I know that's kind of a big question, but you know you can tackle that kinda anyway, like, and we'll, we'll go from there. Sounds good. Well, I am just absolutely fortunate to work with a world-class energy team. I, our energy team is run by our building sciences group Chris low and out of our Portland office.

[00:25:00] And then he has two energy leads. Uh, one does Northern region, Brian gold Crump, and then Brian stern, who does the Southern region. And I, the, the process and workflow that they've developed is second to none. It's pretty phenomenal. And it, it has a huge emphasis on the importance of digital 20. And what a digital twin is essentially a, another existence of the design, just in a completely separate model that you can control the parameters of it.

[00:25:25] A lot of engineering firms and do a lot of energy analytics based on the architect's model. And there's a lot of pitfalls that come with using the architect's model, because it could be highly unstable or, or information could be represented in a way that isn't conducive for doing proper energy modeling.

[00:25:43] So we do the digital twinning and then once we build a rabbit geometry or an ISPE model and its own independent model, we can manipulate that as much as we like. So we can apply different systems. We can apply different efficiencies. We can, you know, one thing I forgot to mention on the reduced side is.

[00:25:59] Led technology of course is more readily available. It's a lot more, cost-effective, it's a very easy solution when you're talking about low costs, lighting energy savings. but you can run through several parametrics of different system types, as well as I different lighting types, as well as apple configurations.

[00:26:16] by having a digital twin, we're not reliant on the architect's model windows, we can stipulate the winter to wall ratio. However we want, we can play around with the window performance. And so he came ratio that you value. As well as different types of envelope, installation techniques. So by having this digital twin and being able to literally iterate as many times as we want, we've found, because we've done this so many times that in certain climates, we iterate certain, very specific things.

[00:26:45] So we've already gone through the learning curve of wasting time, focusing on making the installation a lot thicker down here in Los Angeles, because when you do that, you're actually penalizing the building because your worst case cooling day is usually solar driven where outside it's actually cooler.

[00:27:01] And so you want to be able to lose heat from your space to the outdoors, but you're just really impacted by that sun coming through the class, which is counterintuitive. A lot of people think that, Hey, I want to save energy. Let's go ahead and insulate the heck out of these walls. When in reality in LA, in particular, over in Slade can actually be a detriment.

[00:27:19] So by doing this digital twinning and you know, and we're up and down the west coast for down in Texas rock and hike, we we've got Watts of climates that we've looked at and California is extremely diverse from a climate standpoint. So we know what to look at. We use digital twinning, we use high quality, energy modeling softwares, and then you just do it over and over.

[00:27:40] So you start to up, there is one thing in particular that is special. A lot of energy modeling softwares out there are limited with regards to how you set up the controls for your systems. A lot of energy savings happens on the control side of when you turn equipment on how you balance static pressure, reset how you balance supplier temperature reset.

[00:27:59] And we actually do our own custom on the site programming to supplement where energy modeling programs are insufficient. Still they're getting there, but we do take it upon ourselves to bring them up to the level that we need in order to be truly accurate. Best part of all. We do all the measurement and verification after our projects.

[00:28:18] And we make sure that they actually do perform where energy modeling team had it modeled. I, and the importance of that is because maybe an assumption we made was wrong and we need to learn from that and evolve as an engineering firm. And conversely, we can advise the owner, Hey, you're not operating the building the way we intended or, Hey, there's this control valve is stuck open and it's not turning off during the, during the weekends.

[00:28:37] And you're just wasting a bunch of energy might as well as that turn that off. So, that, that closed loop. From a design standpoint is extremely important, so we can continue to improve ourselves. So digital twinning, getting that feedback, knowing what iterations to run in the digital twin and using a reputable energy modeling software.

[00:28:57] That's how we go through our system selections and advise clients using actual data. So that's an interesting, interesting concept you brought up in it. I don't think it should be, but the follow-up factor that you just mentioned, do you, from your experience, do you find that that's pretty rare in the industry for, for the design side, the consultants to actually then go back after the fact after it's built and occupied?

[00:29:24] Is it, is that a rare thing? Cause I've never, I've never known anyone to do that. And it makes a lot of sense that you just explained it, but. But again, I've never seen it. I've never heard of anyone actually checking it's it's more just design it and then get it out. It's, it's one of those things where we're just lucky to have some of the best clients, that clients that care about that.

[00:29:42] And so we've had the opportunity where clients actually hire us to come back out and make sure that the buildings are performing the way that we've designed. So is it a rarity? I'd say it's not a rarity for the consultants, because I think all the consultants out there want to want to know that data and want to have that data.

[00:29:56] But it's, it's quite a bit of work. And so to have the privilege of working with owners that care about how their systems operate and working with institutional type clients, like the GSA or the state or education clients or healthcare providers or data center providers, or microelectronics, you know, manufacturers, they care about how their buildings operate.

[00:30:17] And so they want us to make sure that it's tuned correctly. And, you know, we do have a commissioning branch as well. And so our commissioning team does go out and audit a lot, or a lot of our projects where they're brought on is commission issue too. Hmm. Yeah. So I'll answer that from the other side, every firm that I've worked for.

[00:30:37] Most everybody was. So I've worked in both AEG and MEP teams and they, and ease. We rarely did it. Typically what happens is frankly, architects are scared to go and talk back to them clients. Cause they're worried about problems. They're worried about getting sued. I mean, that's reality of it is, they're just, they're, they're scared to go back and have a conversation about a problem and catch it before it becomes big because.

[00:31:06] From what I've seen most clients and just like anybody, right. They just want it fixed. Most people aren't looking to necessarily assign blame. I mean that that's going to come regardless. It's going to be, can you fix it? And if you fixed it well enough, right? It's just like, if a doctor screwed up a surgery, if he can fix it, most people and has a good bedside manner.

[00:31:28] Most people aren't going to Sue them. Right. It's the guy that is hard and callous and still screws up. But like that, that ends up getting sued. So that's from what I've seen a lot. And the, so in 2013, I went to New York for the one and only case conference. So if you remember case from back in the day, they.

[00:31:53] Did a ton of really cool things in the built environment on measurement verification, in how you go about building stuff. Case had a whole suite of apps. We work ended up buying them. They actually bought them during that conference. Or the buyout was at that conference in New York in 2013. And the cool thing about WeWork was.

[00:32:13] Exactly what you're talking about. The measurement verification piece that they installed, they did a lot of other dumb things like I talked about, but this measurement verification piece and figuring out how spaces operated, what was good, what was bad was really the core. Technology I'm going to call it that they had in that data that most building owners, you know, now CVRE is starting to incorporate some of that stuff in their spaces.

[00:32:36] And, you know, they have maintain a lot of, a lot of commercial buildings, but with that, like that was the core piece that we work really had from the tech side. I don't think it granted the, or warranted devaluation that got put on them, but that was the really cool piece of what, what they did. So, I mean, for what you guys are doing.

[00:32:56] 100% in behind it. I just, I think too many people are scared of being sued where if they just had those conversations and got ahead of problems, they would avoid a lot of it. Ye absolutely. And again, it's just really owner driven. I mean, you mentioned we work there. They're one of our global clients as well, or if they were one of our global clients, Yeah.

[00:33:20] We were had a lot of other things going on for them, but with that, so, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pivot here. We love construction, right? And this is why we do this. We're not making any money from this other than to kind of indoctrinate people in solve problems. Bring about big topics that people need to hear about whether it's pricing or labor culture.

[00:33:49] So. You know, you do a lot of adjunct teaching as well, and really trying to help bridge that gap between a school of any soul, right? Whether that's high school, you know, teaching at the college level to bring them into the workforce, kind of walk us through maybe the gap that you see there from, from university to, you know, being a consulting engineer and really just construction as a whole.

[00:34:17] Yeah. Wow. That's a big question. I, ye I have to answer the initial start. So where are we headed with this? Yes, I've been very fortunate to have opportunities at a couple of universities here in California, to, to work with some of the students on bridging that gap from their university career into some type of consulting career, whether that's an architect or if that's a MEP consultant.

[00:34:43] During those conversations. And I think that it's, I think that the title of the lectures it's called shit that matters that nobody, and I, what we talk about is we talk about who you are as a person first. and we talk about life and life is extremely important. when we, when we define who we are, when we meet somebody at a conference, or when we meet somebody at a bar or whatever, you know, you start talking about what you do for profession, but your profession is not what should identify you.

[00:35:12] So I actually do two introductions during those lectures. I identify myself as, Hey, let's give myself some credit because I've been in the industry for, you know, 10, 11 years. And, I, I hope to know what I'm talking about. And so I hope that you listen to me, but then I do a second introduction that talks about the fact that, I'm married.

[00:35:29] I have two dogs. I'd love to experience culture. I love the outdoors and nature. so when I say culture, that really means that I love to check out different cuisines. I love to travel. I love photography and I love to be creative. So I play around with some videography and stuff, but. That's where it starts.

[00:35:45] It starts with who we are as people first, because you could lose your job one day. You could, you know, your, your company could go out of business. You could, whatever it is, your career could stop suddenly for some unexpected reason. For me, I May 28th, 2019. I was diagnosed with stage four, colon cancer, and my world was flipped upside down and, That's I think the point in my life that I realized that as much as I absolutely love the construction industry and as much as I love the consulting industry, I need to remember that I'm very human.

[00:36:20] Everybody I work with is human. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody has success, and everybody has mortality. Hubris is something that we need to avoid as, as young individuals, young, successful individuals, thinking that you know it all and you can survive anything and you can do anything. so that's one of the big messages that I share with students is make sure that you really understand who you are first.

[00:36:44] And that can be a really hard thing to figure out. so go explore, go, go adventure, go for a hike in Spain, you know, go for something, right. So I had to figure out if this truly is something that you are going to be passionate about because to survive in this industry, you do need to be passionate about it.

[00:37:01] We then shift into talking about how to, how to do interviews and what we focus on is phrasing. That's the biggest thing. When a senior engineer, and I learned this the hard way, when a senior engineer walks you through a set of drawings or a senior architect walked you through a set of drawings, a lot of us have that, that automatic response is saying, okay, I know, I know.

[00:37:19] I know. And you don't mean that you already know what they're telling you, what you mean is that you're following. And so maybe just say, oh, I see. Or, Hey, I'm following. All right. I see where you're going with that. Instead of automatically just shutting them off. I know. it's just a, it doesn't leave yourself open to learning.

[00:37:40] And I know that a lot of young professionals try and exude this sense of confidence, but the thing that I talk about is humble confidence. You can achieve humble confidence by using specifics as to things that you've done. And quite frankly, when you talk about those experiences, it's probably not going to be nearly as holistic as what the senior engineer or the senior person who's been in the industry for 25 years or 35 years in their boots are older than you coming out of school.

[00:38:05] just be specific and talk exactly about what it is that you have experience with and wherever you leave off in that explanation, always leave Rome. For growth, always leave room for feedback. And that's the humble side of it is you can find an opportunity to present your knowledge in a way that actually seeks feedback from someone who you can learn from.

[00:38:28] Uh, and then of course, we talked about some other things that are extremely important. So we talked about money and how the financials work and, you know, working for a consulting engineering firm and how your billing rate translates to a clients into your paycheck. And. Project success and how that's important.

[00:38:42] You don't, you don't want to be a Carson once you want to be an Aaron Rogers. So you never want to be overpaid. I no offense to you. Eagles fans actually full offense to you. Eagles fans out there, go pack, go. and then we about success. And my favorite book is the first 90 days by Michael Watkins. I, the first 90 days is phenomenal for his methodical approach to creating success.

[00:39:07] No matter what profession you seek or no matter what task you seek. And it talks a lot about coming in and being a learner first, is that publishing where your expertise can actually align, how you can start to automate and you can start to find these small wins. And then once you found the small wins, those wins start to create momentum and you'll start to get more trust because people identify you as well.

[00:39:32] It was a small thing, but you're still a winner. And you can keep building that winning momentum and do bigger and bigger things with that momentum. And then when you do fail, you already have that momentum built up. And so there'll be a lot more forgiveness for that failure. And you want to focus on the little things, you know, someone might ask you to go wash their car as an intern.

[00:39:52] What have you go wash the car, get it detailed, return it back with no scratches and do a good job, right. And make sure that you find a way to very, very humbly. Make sure that you did it correctly because that'll force recognition from whoever your supervisor is by asking if, Hey, did I do this the way that you wanted me to, that forces them to say you actually did.

[00:40:16] and so you get that small win and then you keep building on that momentum. And then you start talking about things that are bigger than that. So finding other people that align with the same strategy that you like to do, and then building teams and then finding team success. so that book's phenomenal.

[00:40:31] So. The steps. Life is critical. You have to remember, we're all human. And, we're here temporarily in this industry. the industry doesn't define who you are. And then we talk about that humble confidence and the importance of humble competence as a young, wanting to be successful, professional, talk about money.

[00:40:51] And then we talk about how to actually build success as a consultant. There is so much great stuff to unpack in that. First of all, I don't think you can see it because of our logo, but my core values of my company are right behind us. And the first one is, is humbly confident. So you, yes, you, you sparked my interest immediately on that, so it's awesome to hear it, but it's so true.

[00:41:16] and. And the momentum portion you mentioned, you know, the small wins in, in my house. We, we say it kind of jokingly we're stacking chips. You know, whenever my boys start succeeding or, you know, my oldest is I think four races, deep taking first place in his cross country team. And, you know, we just have these conversations, like you just said, and he's only 14, but you know, you, you collect the small wins, you build momentum and, and that holds true.

[00:41:44] And a 14 year olds world, as much as it does in a 41 year olds world and everywhere in between. So that was really awesome points you made there one of the best lines. I think I've heard when, because, and I don't know where it comes from. It's a cultural thing to say. I know. Right. And it's not, I know, I know it's that.

[00:42:10] What you really mean and what you should say, but I think it becomes a brevity thing that isn't necessary is it's okay to say a few extra words, right? We we've talked about this and like intros and what you do like to state the problem that you solve. And then what the solution is that you do, right.

[00:42:27] You're not a, you're not an engineer that. Builds buildings. It's, there's a lot of, you know, educational facilities that need net zero energy while we do that, right? Like it's a different way to introduce yourself that takes longer, but it's better. And instead of saying, I know one of the best quotes I've heard is I think I have an understanding, but I'd like, but tell me more.

[00:42:49] Right. I think I understand, but I'd love to learn more and it's a, it's a long, longer statement. Right. But it it's accurate. And I think. Far too often. And a lot of our speech patterns, we don't say accurate things. We just, we cut for brevity. And if we took a little more time and expanded upon them for accurate statements versus brief, we'd all be a lot better than speaking in sound bites.

[00:43:20] So, Dillon question for you when you were, when you were in engineering school, did they teach you how to delegate. No. So imagine every entry level engineer being delegated to by someone who has no formal training in delegation and to your point, cause you've just hit on something. Tell me more. I'm trying to understand.

[00:43:42] Tell me more. Could you keep explaining what you mean by that tremendous value in that? we, we try and use or trying to, encourage people to use repeating. So I'm going to repeat back to you. What I heard you say to make sure that I understand this correctly. And we recommend that to our staff because it's also a great diffusing technique.

[00:44:01] If something does hit the fan on a project, right? Oh, this is really bad. I understand that you're mad. You're just rattling off a bunch of things that you think are wrong, but I'm only hearing, there's actually two things that are wrong. So just repeating back. Okay. I understand that there's a lot of stuff resulting because of these two things here and just refocusing them all.

[00:44:18] I still only hearing that there's two things here, so let's focus on what we can actually do to fix it. but that's also very true when you're, when you're getting delegated to, and, and delegating is a skill not everybody's good at it. quite frankly, a lot of people are really bad at it. Me, especially because I'll ask somebody for something and they'll give it back to me exactly.

[00:44:37] As I asked for it. And it's not what I wanted. I'm like, this is a hundred percent exactly what I asked for, but boy, did I not ask it the right way? So, your point very, very important.

[00:44:53] And one of the things, so a phrase to start out in that is, this is what I heard and then say that, or if I'm understanding correctly, and then that leads in. Pretty well to the, whatever you're going to say next. Cause it's, it's just you repeating back to your point, but those are like the, the entry words, if you will, to, to then have that conversation.

[00:45:17] Yep. We are getting up on time and before we get into the final couple of questions here, cam, where can everybody find you? I am on LinkedIn. I, and people can find me, on, on glue max website as well on the leadership page. I it's www dot Glumac that's G L U M a c.com. Uh, Glumac was founded by Mr.

[00:45:45] Dick Glumac back in 1971. I in San Francisco, California, and he has quite a tremendous story. That is, is I would not give it the justice. It deserves or respect. It deserves if I tried to cram it into the last couple of seconds here, but www.glumac.com. Awesome. And so one of the big things that we, we like to talk about here is.

[00:46:11] Well, so we'll start with, where do you think the industry is heading? What do you think the next five, 10 years holds for, for the construction industry? Ye that's a really good question. I'm going to answer it two ways. Uh, first of which I think that I'm gonna answer it three ways. We're going to start with where I think the net zero is going.

[00:46:30] I think that net zero is going to become a norm. I do think that there's going to be more electrified solutions and our dependence on natural gas type suit solutions or fossil fuel burning type solutions. we'll, we'll eventually. Find an opportunity to become more cost-effective and easily employed on projects.

[00:46:47] I think that we're, we're getting closer to that. so there's that one with regards to net zero energy and electrification. So the challenge is embodied carbon and water water is where I think that a lot of value is going to be placed on engineers to find a net zero or net positive water solution. So I see from an MVP standpoint that becoming the next hot topic is embodied carbon net zero or net positive water.

[00:47:13] From there, we start talking about new construction versus renovations and existing buildings. I think that new construction is going to continue to move towards automated design, whether that's from Autodesk or whatever plugins are out there. and I do find that there is a place not only for MEP consultants to use automation, but also architects.

[00:47:31] And then you start talking about modularization and you start talking about turnkey solution for contractors, engineers, and architects, work together to build modular style design types, where owners can pick options within those modules. So you have very tight cost control. It can be both off site construction sequencing can speed up.

[00:47:48] and then the automation process becomes a lot simpler. So I see new design becoming a lot simpler. And then the value, again, placed on MEP engineers who are familiar working with existing infrastructure, existing buildings going in and doing your existing building audits, focusing on how you do large scale infrastructure replacements, whether that's generators for emergency power on a large scale hospital system where you're talking about like safety needed to be supported.

[00:48:12] so I see that that being a very critical point for, For where I think the future's going. So, automated design and modularization, a focus on I water and embodied carbon. And then the last one to focus on existing buildings for where design professionals can really create value for themselves.

[00:48:34] Moving forward. Once that autumn, autumn automization becomes implemented them.

[00:48:42] So I'll, I agree with. A lot of things, you said automation for sure. Modularization for sure. Is, is coming. I think net zero is a big topic. embodied carbon, I believe is going to be more prevalent just with engineered wood and stuff like that, which then you get into. The other side of that is in your insurance and liability now having a full wood, wood structure, and how to mitigate fire risk for those buildings.

[00:49:14] And then the only thing that I would slightly contend with is I think water in California and in the west is a very big deal. And then on the other side of it looking like a Mississippi Delta that floods every year and most of the east coast water. Not really a problem. There's plenty of it. The water table's fine, but California, just historically water laws and water distribution through California.

[00:49:41] And most of the west is there's a lot of problems with it. So I'm, I'm fully on the water thing. I think it's just, it's a regional. Not necessarily at a national stage, I would, I would implore upon you, with regards to the Mississippi Delta and Louisiana and that whole area, right. You start talking about how the Delta floods, right.

[00:50:02] And causes damage to all of the water treatment facilities and pollutes so much of our rivers because of that flooding. And if you did localize water control at the building level, instead of having to go back to an, you know, a utility level water treatment plant, where that become the water pollution risk, it can help solve that problem too.

[00:50:21] So it's a natural thing and it goes beyond just water conservation. It's also making sure we're not polluting our bodies of water that's around us. Yeah. That, that I can. And I'm thinking up in Iowa too. And, and for that piece in what gets thrown back out. So like in, you say, for example, that goes down the drain, once the sewers are full and those in stormwater is full, it just empties into the Hudson.

[00:50:48] So you literally have sewer water going into the Hudson. So I'm fully on board with it. Uh, It being a problem. When you, when you phrase it that way of how water gets treated in that, that process of water? I, it was more the conservation piece. There's certain, certain areas. I don't think you know, conservation is quite what it is in California.

[00:51:12] Yep. Yeah. When I, when I presented at Greenbuild last year with, a couple of people, I, Monica alphabet Tonto from CSU long beach Stacey Olsen from Gensler. Uh, we had Eric, how he was at NSU at the time, which was a wastewater servicing provider that does membrane bioreactors and the like, and the way that the conversation went was also how much the earth has actually sank in on itself, because we've been depleting our aquifers so much.

[00:51:38] So it's how much we're depleting our aquifers. It's how much pollution actually exists when the, when the rivers and deltas flood and go into our wastewater treatment plants. And that spillage comes over and does a lot more damage than good. Uh, and then also from an intrinsic standpoint, here in California, the fact that we have what, 10 million people that just live in LA city alone, LA is a desert and we all choose to live here.

[00:52:00] So, there is that importance of the comp conservation site, too. Yeah. Yeah. And being in the mountains of California and just the million miles of open air aqueduct and evaporation pass, like it's you know, it, I think. Learning about water, especially if you live in California, is is a hugely big deal that more people need to spend some time about where their water comes from.

[00:52:29] Uh, cause most of it is from the mountains or, like for LA comes some of it from up here and then some of it from like the, the Hoover in Vegas, it gets pumped, you know, hundreds of miles.

[00:52:46] And one of the last questions that I have, now that we've, again, go, go research water. There's a lot of things that we, I think we can all do on that one. Uh, but is if there was, if you had a magic wand, if you could. Solve one of the problems within construction within our industry. What would, what would be your, if you had one wish, what would what would that be for work for the construction industry?

[00:53:15] Ye it's a it's teamwork and communication. it's that simple, women were talking about custom selection. There's more to it than just dollars. it's also understanding what the owner cares about. do they care about the greenhouse gas emissions? Do they care about their water use too? They care about their EOI.

[00:53:34] Do they care about their operational energy costs every year? what is it that, that they actually care about? You know, is it acoustics? Is it, you know, indoor, environmental quality, that dialogue and ability to communicate with an owner to really extract what they care about. So you can provide them with a solution that actually serves what they want is highly important.

[00:53:53] Likewise between engineers and architects, having each other's backs, working as a team, working towards the same goal, communicating to make sure that each other don't fall into pitfalls. Right? Don't put your electrical room right behind a stair. And next to an elevator is just not going to be, you're not going to get the conduits out.

[00:54:11] because you're gonna have that big duct that flies by that also blocks the path. simple things like that. And you have to remember that there's junior people on the architects team, the junior people on the MVPs team, the junior people on the construction team. So now we've talked about making sure that the junior architects, that junior engineers don't fall into common pitfalls for through communication teamwork.

[00:54:31] Now let's take care of our contractors because without them, everything we put down on paper is not possible. Skilled tradesmen, skilled laborers are so critical for our industry. And I think that it is so, so important that we as engineers, designers and architects communicate more clearly better to them to understand the intent of our design.

[00:54:53] And work together to find cost-effective solutions that ultimately serve the owner. So, and then you have, you know, you start talking about owners that want to do large-scale philanthropy type things with low budgets, and, you know, we can start supporting those types of things by that teamwork and communication.

[00:55:08] So that's what I would fix in the industry. I think you nailed it, Cameron. And we've talked about that topic a lot on this show since I came on board, but you know, as an industry, construction has a lot of really big tables. And if we would all just pull up a chair and have that open communication across the different division and across the different specialties, there's no telling how much that would help.

[00:55:31] It would be immense. It's just absolutely immense. So thank you for coming on camera. It's been a fun conversation.

[00:55:43] guys today, we learned about mechanical systems selections about reducing your footprint. First reuse, reinforce renewables, digital twins, momentum building, taking a little time to do that little bit extra. You know, really having the, the end in mind and communicating across all the trades, all the disciplines and, you know, really helping people bridge, bridge the gap from wherever they are, to where they want to be, whether that's from school, to the profession, from, you know, a entry-level person to you know, VP within the decade.

[00:56:23] So whatever it is that you're looking to do, there's, there's somebody within this industry that is more than willing to help. you know, whether they're in your firm in through a podcast, through other outlets here on LinkedIn, there's plenty of them. guys, if you have any questions, if you've got any building needs for, you know, net zero especially in educational facilities, cam a cam is your guy.

[00:56:51] And with that, any, any last remarks cam? No, just thanks so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. Appreciate working with you guys. Thank you for coming on and sharing so much through for, you know, how we can get better as an industry, how we can help the next generation and for everybody out there until next time.